Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: ragerover on January 15, 2008, 13:58:18
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right just got the td5 sorted
its excellent off the mark and mid range but the top speed is crap
i know there all poor i ran a 200tdi for 11 years but this seems poor great to 60 then struggles to 75mph max it just seems to run out of steam (its deisel i know)
my 200 tdi had the big intercooler and fuel pump mods by jeremy fearn so i could have been spoilt
and to be honest i cant remember before i had it done
it would pull 90 if you wanted but would sit at 75 all day and you could put your foot down and pass plenty stuff if you wanted
the td5 did have the infamous oiling of the harness problem which i replaced and dried everything out (at least 5 times)
its now bone dry
its a 2000 model with 60 k miles
im eventually going for an upgrade but to be honest im skint at the moment
i love the truck but it just feels flat ive checked and changed filters etc
how fast are they as standard~?
got back in the old 200 tdi today and the difference is huge
any advice or help would be grately appreciated
cheers
martin
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Not sure if ours felt "flat" but seemed to run out of revs/steam @ 70 ish, and certainlt did not feel happy at that speed, But we had the disco 2 gears fitted, and wow what a difference :shocked:
Feels much happier to drive at motorway speeds, and you can hold it in gear longer to utilise the power more,
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A 90 even on standard gearing should do 90mph plus... (a 110 even with a roof rack will pull 95mph on the speedo)....
There are few things that can cause problems on Td5's (not all of them affect top speed though)-
Faulty Mass Air Flow meter
Faulty MAP sensor (goes to a default value)
Faulty injectors
Faulty Fuel Pump (should be 4bar at the engine)
Faulty EGR Set-up (better removed anyway!!)
The infamous harness issue (which you've resolved)
Dodgy ECU's
Faulty Turbo actuators (either siezed or ill adjusted)
Faulty/split/delaminating intercooler pipes
And a few other bits and pieces....
Personnally.... apart from checking the obvious things like air fliters etc etc, I'd get it checked over by someone with proper diagnostic kit - using the live data page get them to check everything is working correctly.
Ian
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My '53 plate 110 hardtop (ex-electricity board) is exactly the same - rapid up to 60, it will make it to 70-75, but my ears can't take the noise.............I've ripped out the EGR junk, fitted a known working standard ECU (thanks Ian), and still no change in the top speed. My theory is that as the leccy board towed huge trailers, maybe they had the gear ratios changed to stop the sparkies from doing 90 with a 3ton genny on the back !
When I find some spare cash (and another transfer box), I'm going to get one of the Ashcroft box's with Disco high range gears - and then do a straight swap and see what difference it makes.
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Hmmm...sounds like you are running D2 High Range Gears &/or large tyres. :-k
Bin the EGR & fit THIS (http://www.devon4x4.com/component/option,com_shop/Itemid,67/sitelang,en/mode,productview/product,222/cat,86/showcaticons,no)
Also straight through mid pipe will help & sounds wonderful :lol:
I fitted a Dastek chip to my Td5 & wow :shock: what a difference that made.
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Hmmm...sounds like you are running D2 High Range Gears &/or large tyres. :-k
Large tyres yes (well, only 265/75/16's), surely the D2 high range Tbox would give a higher top speed - which is what me and Ragerover have not got at the mo !
And as for replacing the EGR junk, I'd fit thishttp://www.irbdevelopments.com/EGR_TD5.html (http://www.irbdevelopments.com/EGR_TD5.html) over the one you mention - as it comes with a new vacuum hose, rather than a soppy little rubber plug to blank off the T-piece in the existing hose.
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running 265/75/16 mt`S TOO BUT THEY WERE ON THE OLD 200 TDI I SUPPOSE ILL HAVE TO TRY AND FIND SOME ONE LOCAL WITH AN ECU TO SWAP OR AN INDIPENDANT DEALER WITH THE FACILLITY`S TO CHECK FOR FAULTS
ANY MORE SUGGESTIONS KEEP EM COMIN
CHEERS
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Martin,
Is yours a hardtop or station wagon - do you know what it was used for in it's previous life, is it ex-utility company or anything ?
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yep its a hard top both owners have been private individuals so i think itll be standard gearing
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running 265/75/16 mt`S TOO BUT THEY WERE ON THE OLD 200 TDI I SUPPOSE ILL HAVE TO TRY AND FIND SOME ONE LOCAL WITH AN ECU TO SWAP OR AN INDIPENDANT DEALER WITH THE FACILLITY`S TO CHECK FOR FAULTS
ANY MORE SUGGESTIONS KEEP EM COMIN
CHEERS
You can't just swap ECU's on a Td5 - the engine ECU is matched to the alarm 10AS ECU, so if you swap ECU's you need to swap them as a pair unless you have diagnostic kit (the 10AS is the green box screwed to the bulkhead behind the clock panel)
Ian
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running 265/75/16 mt`S TOO BUT THEY WERE ON THE OLD 200 TDI I SUPPOSE ILL HAVE TO TRY AND FIND SOME ONE LOCAL WITH AN ECU TO SWAP OR AN INDIPENDANT DEALER WITH THE FACILLITY`S TO CHECK FOR FAULTS
ANY MORE SUGGESTIONS KEEP EM COMIN
CHEERS
You can't just swap ECU's on a Td5 - the engine ECU is matched to the alarm 10AS ECU, so if you swap ECU's you need to swap them as a pair unless you have diagnostic kit (the 10AS is the green box screwed to the bulkhead behind the clock panel)
Ian
mmm im confused now :huh:
i saw the green box when i wired in the imobiliser but mine hasnt got an alarm
its a 2000 but i think it was the change over model as its got the original type dash (same as 200 / 300 tdi) , new clocks but windy windows also the key is the standard looking type ie the same as my 200tdi
also heres a thing where the ecu sits is a blue multi plug with a blanking cap on, and in the fuse box is a green multi plug which is not connected to any thing
help
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Martin,
It would be easier for you to find someone with some diagnostic kit (Rovacom or Nanocom) and get them to check the live data info. If you swap the ECU, you'll need to read the injector codes off your existing ECU and write them onto the new (or loan) ECU - as well as coding your 10AS to the new ECU. It is possible (using diag tools) to disable the factory alarm - mine has a factory alarm/immobiliser (as well as other security 'items' ;)), but no central locking, and I have windup windows too !
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Hmmm...sounds like you are running D2 High Range Gears &/or large tyres. :-k
Large tyres yes (well, only 265/75/16's), surely the D2 high range Tbox would give a higher top speed -
Not if you haven't got enough power to turn the wheels...like trying to pedal a bike in top gear everywhere sometimes you physically can't :D
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Not if you haven't got enough power to turn the wheels...like trying to pedal a bike in top gear everywhere sometimes you physically can't :D
But we have power - up to about 60mph anyway :roll:.................at what point do wheels become too 'big', and need gear ratios swapping ?
IIRC, my wheel/tyre setup is a factory option - so it should be ok with the stock gearing ?
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Hmmm...sounds like you are running D2 High Range Gears &/or large tyres. :-k
Bin the EGR & fit THIS (http://www.devon4x4.com/component/option,com_shop/Itemid,67/sitelang,en/mode,productview/product,222/cat,86/showcaticons,no)
Also straight through mid pipe will help & sounds wonderful :lol:
I fitted a Dastek chip to my Td5 & wow :shock: what a difference that
If you fit one of these will the ecu have to be altered
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Hmmm...sounds like you are running D2 High Range Gears &/or large tyres. :-k
Bin the EGR & fit THIS (http://www.devon4x4.com/component/option,com_shop/Itemid,67/sitelang,en/mode,productview/product,222/cat,86/showcaticons,no)
Also straight through mid pipe will help & sounds wonderful :lol:
I fitted a Dastek chip to my Td5 & wow :shock: what a difference that
If you fit one of these will the ecu have to be altered
No it's a piggy-back chip so original ecu stays in place...take 2mins to fit :dance:. Look at Dastek website & contact Xtremeteam as he works for Dastek.
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I also find that when you hit 65 to70 the engine seems to have to work really hard to go faster.
I have had 85mph out of the old girl but its noisey.
I would like a upgrade but don't really know where to start.And of course thers the money side of things.
Is it just that the defender td5 is just slow anyway
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No...the td5 has to rev hard to get 85 which is why allot of people have Disco 2 high range gearing put in the transfer box. This makes cruising at 80 allot more pleasant. However I would combine the chip upgrade & gearing...the gearing upgrade walone will make the vehicle feel even more sluggish.
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Man, I read this post last week and now mine is flat as a pancake. Is it contagious?! :|
The engine is feeling lifeless on acceleration.
The engine was reconned 45k ago but since the rebuild it has never had the same performance. Before I was happy at 70 - 75mph and now I hardly get 65mph out if it.
After acceleration when I start to level off it almost feels like I am starting to apply the handbrake a smidgeon. Like it's hitting a flat spot in the middle.
Does this sound like the injector pump? The performance has dropped even more over the last week and I am really hoping I won't have fork out cash I don't have for it to be reconditioned.
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MAF sensor playing up? - try disconnecting it and see if it gets any better.
Darren
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Does this sound like the injector pump? The performance has dropped even more over the last week and I am really hoping I won't have fork out cash I don't have for it to be reconditioned.
Td5 doesnt have an injector pump as such - just one huge in-tank pump............and AFAIK, they can't be re-conned, you have to fork out major loads of beer tokens for a new one :(
Get the truck on some diags kit, you need to see about 4 bar of fuel pressure at the engine - there's also a fuel pressure regulator on the o/s of the engine, these can leak..........this may be the cause of my problems (it's certainly the cause of the smell of diesel, and puddle on my drive :roll:)
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Sorry, should have said - mine's a 200tdi but seems to have the same symptoms.
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Sorry, should have said - mine's a 200tdi but seems to have the same symptoms.
Check the intercooler hoses for splits & delamination
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Have a look on td5alive .com .
For about £464 you can have your td5s ecu remapped and get 30 to 40 bhp more and more importantly better torc in the low down rev range.
I im thinking hard about having this done.These guys at td5 alive seem to know what there talking about.
Has anyone had the defender remapped by these guys if so how did you get on with it?
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Have a look on td5alive .com .
For about £464 you can have your td5s ecu remapped and get 30 to 40 bhp more and more importantly better torc in the low down rev range.
I im thinking hard about having this done.These guys at td5 alive seem to know what there talking about.
Has anyone had the defender remapped by these guys if so how did you get on with it?
Blatent spam ;)
But I can do it for less - and you get a forum discount....
Ian
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GOT A TD5 no problem up to 60 but with 235/85 start to struggle speed 67 gps speed 72
had directional machos on previously marginally better would show 75
ran them on a/t 235/75 shot up to 75 no prob,
but it is an aerodynamic brick plus the weight of the rollcage doesn't help, also had to change from a safari snorkal to another type so have lost a bit of air pressure
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Have a look on td5alive .com .
For about £464 you can have your td5s ecu remapped and get 30 to 40 bhp more and more importantly better torc in the low down rev range.
I im thinking hard about having this done.These guys at td5 alive seem to know what there talking about.
Has anyone had the defender remapped by these guys if so how did you get on with it?
Blatent spam ;)
But I can do it for less - and you get a forum discount....
[So what your saying is that i'm putting spam on this forum just because i meation a company.I saw this firm at Landroverfest last year and after talking to them and watching the main arena show i liked what i saw and thet seemed to know there onions when it came to td5 engines.
If you had had a stand there i would of talked to you to but you did'nt so there for i don't know you and so your spam comment means nothing.
Unless of course it was just a bit of fun which i'm sure it was :dance:
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So what your saying is that i'm putting spam on this forum just because i meation a company.I saw this firm at Landroverfest last year and after talking to them and watching the main arena show i liked what i saw and thet seemed to know there onions when it came to td5 engines.
If you had had a stand there i would of talked to you to but you did'nt so there for i don't know you and so your spam comment means nothing.
Unless of course it was just a bit of fun which i'm sure it was :dance:
Richo....
Not at all.
The spam bit related to me, nothing to do with you mentioning td5 alive....
It was me doing the spamming - mentioning that I can tune Td5 for less ;)
Ian
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wouldnt be so keen on a Td5alive tune
only the vehicles running the dastek upgrade didnt have any issues at peterborough, the others were smoking a bit & hitting boost cut :wink:
they may talk the talk but i wouldnt say they were the berrys,
all the figures?
they claim it & dastek prove it
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Please don't use trademarks or trademarked images when mentioning spam it upsets people http://www.spam.com/legal/spam/
Have made changes to posts accordingly.
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Please don't use trademarks or trademarked images when mentioning spam it upsets people http://www.spam.com/legal/spam/
Have made changes to posts accordingly.
Sorry wolfie.... :scold: - I should have known better.
Ian
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No worrys mate just me getting the wrong end of the stick.
So who do we trust to tune our td5s then as now the wing has been knocked out of my sails ,so to speak.
Some people say that a remap is the way to go and others say fit a chip.
All very confusing me thinks.
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no doubt porny will moan like whore for this...
a download map like what he does or anyone else does canny be remaped in real time
the benifit of a plug in system like the dastek is a few options
it can be removed if your taking the car in for warrantry
it can be removed & sold on the 2nd hand market & recoup your costs if you choose to change vehicle
if you decide to go for further mods it can either have the map changed for a preselected one for the mods you have or remapped in real time to suit YOUR vehicle
for all the dastek units sold there has never been an issue with warped manifolds etc even on vehicles running the high power maps as they are set up to be safe, not wring everylast BHP out the vehicle
there are a few companys claiming 200bhp + on a standard turbo with the adittion of a remap & filter
It aint gonna happen, most that i have seen in person & dyno proven was 190bhp ish & that had full exhaust, was over fueling unsafely for engine life & was running huge EGTs
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Lol....
First off, whilst I'm not a massive fan of plug in tuning, the Dastek is probably one of the better ones around.... (And I don't won't this to turn into some daft slagging match)
Mike is true in what he said, using commercially available kit, a standard Td5 ECU can not be mapped in real time!! (Regardless of what some other tuners claim!) Instead you would run the car, make adjustments and run the car again - whilst long winded, the end result is the same.
However, again possibly unlike other people, I do not have just the one tune, and instead can provide modified remaps to suit individual needs and requirements. And if needed, I will have the vehicle on a rolling and do a fully custom map.
A Dastek box is pretty similar to most remaps...
You buy the box and it comes with a generic tune (well, a set of generic parameters) that should provide more power..... But it is not tailored to the vehicle.
If you want a custom remap then you need to drive up to Dastek and have it done.... in just the same way I can provide a custom remap ;)
Warranty issues wise... (with regards to Td5's)
You could have two ECU's and just swap them over... as long as both are coded to the 10AS and have the correct injector codes then it will work without a problem.
Or...
If you reflash the ECU with a modified version of the original files, a dealer will not be detect that anything has changed - as for all intentional purposes the files haven't changed.
Is true that the Dastek units can be sold on if you change cars - but then you get the problem (which happens quite often) that people buy a second hand Dastek unit under the misguided judgment that all Td5's are the same!!! (they are not!!!)
In the same manner, you could always sell on your 're-mapped' ECU.
As for further upgrades...
A remap (from the correct people) is very similar to a Dastek unit - for common modifications I have 'pre-made' tried and tested tunes, and for custom mods, as mentioned I can make a 'unique' remap.
Unlike some other tuners, my remaps always air on the side of caution.... I don't sell balls out remaps that cause reliability issues - mainly because I don't want unhappy customers. I have not had one remapped Land Rover come back with problems caused from the remap!!
The issue of warping manifolds is an interesting one.... even standard Td5's suffer from it!!!
I know of one 130" that has suffered warped manifolds, it ran a Dastek unit with a 'standard' remap - but then this is far from conclusive - as already mentioned even standard Td5's sometimes have a problem!!!
I don't claim daft figures.... and don't focus on all out power. Some one told me the other day that their mate had 310bhp from a Td5!!
So… what’s wrong with plug in units – just my opinions….
Firstly, there are lots of companies that will sell people plug boxes, without even knowing what they do, or how they work.
They are not tailored to customers needs, and some still require you cut into the vehicle wiring loom!!! They tell the customer to plug this in, and you’ll have 200bhp!!!
However, the main thing that bugs me…. (this covers plug in boxes and ‘remapping by post)
In my case, I will not (out of choice) remap a Td5 (or tune any engine for that matter) without doing a full ‘diagnostic’ check first to ensure that the engine/vehicle is in good working order and free from any faults.
As I’ve said before there is no point remapping an engine that has faults…. And remapping can suddenly make any faults a lot worse!! – Which will lead to an annoyed customer, who would only have themselves to blame.
From my point of view, when I do a remap a customer also pays to have their vehicle checked over, and if I find anything wrong that affects (especially) performance I will get the engine working correctly first and get them to drive it as standard to ensure they actually require a remap – i.e. more than the performance offered by a standard engine… I’m not going to sell something that people don’t need.
Whereas… you could have a Td5 that feels sluggish, everyone tells you to get it tuned, or get a plug in box… But the actual reason the Land Rover is sluggish is because there is something wrong with it!!!
Whilst I’m having a moan – people will probably say well I have a Nanocom, so I can check my own Td5.
Just because you have a Nanocom, doesn’t mean you know how to use it. Just checking for fault codes if far from checking everything is ok on a Td5… a lot of faults do not even show up in the fault code lists!!
What is else is wrong with Plug in Boxes…
You will always have a delay.
They will still try and up the fuelling even when the engine has faults!!! (this can actually be ‘very’ bad!!!)
Personally I find them slightly lacking with regards to driveabilty.
They can and ‘do’ cause spurious errors on Td5’s (even Dastek units do this!!) – On from this they even cause the Land Rover to go into limp home mode!!!
This will, at times, require a trip to a Land Rover specialist to clear.
From an insurance point of view – there is no way an insurance inspector will know the ECU has a set of modified files inside!!! If a dealer can’t tell, an insurance inspector won’t tell!!! Unlike if you have a crash, and don’t get chance to remove the plug in box before it goes off to the insurance inspectors.
On a TD5 - a plug in box (regardless of the way it does it) either modifies the signal to the fuel injectors - so that they stay open for longer, modifies the signal from the fuel pressure sensor so that it thinks its running a lower pressure than it actually is (so increases to fueling) or it adjusts the temp sensor, so the engine thinks it's colder than it actually is and employs cold start enrichment. It can not affect turbo boost pressure, or do some of the things it can on other cars.
Basically, it is still a bit of bodge method of tuning....
I only sell what I would use myself…
This is just my opinion though, so feel free to disagree.....
Ian
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porny
just back online had a virus
got your email ill be in touch soon :D
latest update had landy on computer with live run shows fault with air flow meter plugged a known ok one in still shows fault??
drove with sat nav in car and speedo is showing 10 mph slow
hits 83 on flat and 75 up a hill
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Porny a question for you .
Is it worth me fitting the egr removel kit or just wait until i have the cash for a remap and intercooler and then having it all done together.
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Porny a question for you .
Is it worth me fitting the egr removel kit or just wait until i have the cash for a remap and intercooler and then having it all done together.
If your EGR is working correctly, and only opening when it should... then removing it all won't make 'that' much difference to performance. You are not suddenly going to release 100bhp ;)
There will be a difference, but it won't be huge (i.e. push you back in your seat)... but at certain load/speed you will notice that the engine is more responsive/powerful - as the engine will be breathing clean air - not recirculated exhaust gas!!...
The major difference is when the EGR system isn't working correctly - which happens quite often, and the engine is breathing exhaust gas all of the time... apart from being bad for performance and mpg - it can be very bad for the engine!!
The other advantage of removing the EGR is that the inlet manifold will not get full of sludge!!!... so again improves long term reliability.
With regards to 'with a remap, or before'... entirely up to you.
Ian
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Cheers mate i might get one then thats another thing off my very long list of things to do ticked off.
When is it even going to stop!!
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Mine drove well (pulls well to 85-90MPh), and as an 04 reg assume that all was working but still a change the better, now saving for the trip to see Porny for some tuning.
Andy
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How big is big.
I'm not after massive bhp just a better pull and more torque.
What is your goal by having it done.I would be very interested in the results as i would like a power up grade.