Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: gords on June 21, 2005, 18:55:21
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My Discovery broke down today - I was pulling away when something went bang/clang/etc and I lost drive.
Selecting diff-lock enables it to move, but non diff-lock (high or low) goes nowhere.
So, where do I start on diagnosing what's broken? Of course, if anyone local fancies a look - please feel free :wink:
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I had similar and it was the rear diff. Sounds like you've either broken the halfshalfts, a diff or a propshaft has gone.
It could be internal but I doubt it.
Ed
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I have a diff centre here you can have if that has failed.
(i.e. no crown wheel)
My money is on a snapped pin.
oh and just in case you were thinking about it - DO NOT DRIVE IT EVEN WITH DIFF LOCK IN - you might push some metal through the casing or damage the crown wheel - and then it will cost *even more*
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I stand by what I said on the phone ;-)
If the rear prop is turning then it is a rear axle problem... pull the shafts and if they are OK then you need a new diff.
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http://members.mud-club.com/profiles/Wanderer/gallery/Diff%20damage
has the damage done to mine after not listening to my head.
Ed
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not a cv joint gone?
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Gords reported that he reckoned the rear prop was turning when he tried to drive, so it points to a fault with the rear axle.
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aah all is clear now, you know whats next on the shopping list, gords wants a heavy duty diff and half shafts :lol:
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I forgot the CV :oops:
Ed
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If it is a CV Paddocks are doing them at £25 +vat You might get free postage if you order a pair. I think you get free postage over £50.
Ed
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I stand by what I said on the phone ;-)
Yes, thanks for your help Tim, much appreciated :)
If the rear prop is turning then it is a rear axle problem... pull the shafts and if they are OK then you need a new diff.
OK, dummies guide to "pulling the shafts" please :wink:
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Take the road wheel off... undo the 6 bolts holding the driving member to the hub, give it a yank.
Have some rag / a tray handy to catch the oil that will come out of the end... it shouldn't be much, but it will be messy.
The shafts should come out, one will be longer than the other. The end that goes into the diff should be properly machined with splines on it.
My money is on the diff to be honest, but you have to take the shafts out to change that anyway.
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If it is a CV Paddocks are doing them at £25 +vat You might get free postage if you order a pair
they mite b the cheap recon joints that are quite soft,
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If you jack up the end your removing it might not be so messy.
I hate Ep90.
Ed
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My money is on the diff to be honest, but you have to take the shafts out to change that anyway.
Is that a straight forward job - or does it need specialist setting up? Does the whole axle have to come off the car?
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If you get a complete diff it is a nut & bolt job.. the only specialist tools you need are big muscles ;-)
The axle stays on the car.
If you only have the diff centre, it is a bit more complex and you need to set it up properly.
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can do 1 in 1/2 hour but only cos ive done them b4
piece o p133 to do,do u have alloys or steel wheels?
remove rear prop,drain oil,remove rear shafts,remove the nuts holdin the diff in viola it should come out no probs,refit is the reverse of remooval except u swear in different places
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can do 1 in 1/2 hour but only cos ive done them b4
So, why couldn't you live in Dorking then :roll: :wink:
piece o p133 to do,do u have alloys or steel wheels?
Alloy - why?
remove rear prop,drain oil,remove rear shafts,remove the nuts holdin the diff in viola it should come out no probs,refit is the reverse of remooval except u swear in different places
Well, sounds easy-peasy :) :lol:
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if u had steel u could leave the wheels on & not have to jack it up,(why i run disco steels n not rangie steels on the racer)u will need bout 2 1/2 litres ep90 2 drive flange gaskets n a diff gasket
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if u had steel u could leave the wheels on & not have to jack it up,(why i run disco steels n not rangie steels on the racer)u will need bout 2 1/2 litres ep90 2 drive flange gaskets n a diff gasket
Nope, sorry, you've lost me :oops: How can you leave the wheels on if you need to remove the half shafts? :?
I just put it into diff-lock and 1st gear and jacked up each wheel individually - both rear wheels rotated, but the front wheel (only tried one) didn't (as expected?!).
So, does that mean it's the diff, or could it still be one of the half shafts?
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You can't really tell without removing the shafts. You need to remove them anyway to change the diff.
Steel wheels have the centre piece missing and there's enough room to remove the half shafts with the wheel still in position.
Ed
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shouldnt have brought the steel wheels into it but ill explain any way,if u had steels u can pull the shafts through the centre as they have a large hole,but as u have alloys u cant do that so you will have to remove the wheels,just means it takes a bit longer n more messin about with a jack n stands etc
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OK, I think I now have a picture of what I'm doing :) lets hope for a sunny morning tomorrow [-o<
I've had a quick look for the possible "bits" - half shafts approx £35, recon diff approx £150? :shock: Does that sound about right?
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im no sure o the prices as ive got large stock of bits that i use in the racer but a diff is normally between £50 & a ton although u can pick them up cheap on ebay
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Gords,
If you're having snags I may be able to pop up in the afternoon if work is quiet tomorrow ...
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Gords,
If you're having snags I may be able to pop up in the afternoon if work is quiet tomorrow ...
Thanks for the offer Spooky :)
The plan is to remove stuff tomorrow morning, but I have a meeting at 1pm which takes out at least 12 - 2:30pm.
If I get as stuck as a stuck thing, I'll shout :wink: :lol:
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Well, it's not the half shafts - they came out in one piece with perfect splines at the required end :wink:
Got to the point where I've undone the diff nuts (not taken them off completely yet), but the diff seems pretty well stuck in place! What's the best way to persuade it to come off?
Also, how heavy are these things - do I need a helper?
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It is sealed on with hylomar (you will need some to put it back on). It is HEAVY, so a helper is advised.
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Give it a good wiggle :-)
You might even need to give it a thump with a big rubber mallet to get it loose, then it is a case of wiggling it out of the casing... it will probably get stuck / snagged on the way out.
If you are big, butch and strong you can manage them on your own... but it is a big lump, so a trolley jack and/or another pair of hands might help.
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If you leave a couple of nuts on either top or bottom then that will stop the diff from falling on you.
As Neil said it is well sealed. EP90 will find it's way out of even the tiniest pinhole. The brake pipe mount is at the top. You might want to make sure it isn't stuck to the diff housing as you remove it.
Sounds like the carrier or pins. As you weren't off road it might be the pins. If you look at my pictures I managed to shatter the carrier and shoot the pins out of the back cover. The diff guard stopped Paul from getting one through his wndscreen.
Ed
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Well, it's not the half shafts - they came out in one piece with perfect splines at the required end :wink:
Got to the point where I've undone the diff nuts (not taken them off completely yet), but the diff seems pretty well stuck in place! What's the best way to persuade it to come off?
Also, how heavy are these things - do I need a helper?
when mine was stuck in I undid the filler plug and put a bar in there to help it off.
after a tap with the hammer it broke the seal and hey presto out it came.
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Give it a good wiggle :-)
You might even need to give it a thump with a big rubber mallet to get it loose, then it is a case of wiggling it out of the casing... it will probably get stuck / snagged on the way out.
Wiggling didn't work :wink: Gave it a thump or two but it didn't budge - and I ran out of time.
If you are big, butch and strong
You've met me ... what do you reckon :wink: :lol: ... OK, I'll find a strong helper :roll: Any big, butch and strong chaps (or chapesses :wink: ) out there then? :)
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If you're doing it from underneath lying on the floor... get a trolley jack under it - you really don't want something like that dropping onto your chest or any other part of the body :shock: - jacking it up may help to loosen it off as well :wink:
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Any big, butch and strong chaps (or chapesses :wink: ) out there then? :)
Whoooaaa! This is a forum for off road enthusiats. :D
Seriously, find some way to support the diff when removing it. I had one land on my chest, then clouted my head when I jumped up in pain, then clouted it again when I recoiled back, ouch!
Putting it back isn't so bad, because you already know how heavy it is.
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If you leave a couple of nuts on either top or bottom then that will stop the diff from falling on you.
As Neil said it is well sealed. EP90 will find it's way out of even the tiniest pinhole. The brake pipe mount is at the top. You might want to make sure it isn't stuck to the diff housing as you remove it.
Sounds like the carrier or pins. As you weren't off road it might be the pins. If you look at my pictures I managed to shatter the carrier and shoot the pins out of the back cover. The diff guard stopped Paul from getting one through his wndscreen.
Ed
Just re-read this and it sounds pants.
Undo the nuts but leave them near the end of the threads to allow some movement of the casing while you are freeing it. A stanley blade will help to free off the silicon/hylomar.
Ed
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Right then - trolley jack it is :wink:
Anyone have suggestions on where to get a diff from?
[possible stupid question alert]Can I replace it with something that will correct the gearing after putting 235/85 tyres on?[/possible stupid question alert]
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Standard Disco gearing (205 tyres) = 27.4 mph/1000prm in 5th
235/86-16 tyres = 30.1 mph/1000rpm
Change Diffs to 4.11 ratio with 235s = 25.9 mph/1000rpm
So to answer your question - not really! :?
As to where to get a diff, no idea at the moment - sorry! :roll:
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How many splines on the end of the shafts Gords ?
I've got a variety of diffs here, could probably sort something out for you.
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I would assume 24 spline based on the year/model. As I said Gords, I have a diff centre, 24 spline you can have for free.
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I was about to ask how many splines are on the halfshafts and how many bolts are in the drive flange ... :)
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I would assume 24 spline based on the year/model. As I said Gords, I have a diff centre, 24 spline you can have for free.
I know what *should* be in there... but this is a Land Rover, so thought it best to check ;-)
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<grin>
Hence my *assume* :)
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How many splines on the end of the shafts Gords ?
I've got a variety of diffs here, could probably sort something out for you.
I've not actually counted them yet - but my guess would be 24.
As I said Gords, I have a diff centre, 24 spline you can have for free.
Thanks for the offer Neil, but I'm assuming it's not a "bolt straight on" solution - is that right? I don't have the kit/skill/etc to rebuild a diff :wink:
how many bolts are in the drive flange
Eh? :? Which bit is that? :oops:
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how many bolts are in the drive flange
Eh? :? Which bit is that? :oops:
The bit that the prop shaft bolts to. :wink:
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how many bolts are in the drive flange
Eh? :? Which bit is that? :oops:
The bit that the prop shaft bolts to. :wink:
Ah, where the rubber "thing" attaches? There's 3 bolts.
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How many splines on the end of the shafts Gords ?
I've got a variety of diffs here, could probably sort something out for you.
There was a number on the diff itself - does that identify what type it is?
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The part number for a 24-spline 3-bolt diff is FTC 3723.
That maybe the number that Gordon's referring to.
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I've just finished finding and printing off the instructions and specifications for replacing a diff centre.
I do have the necessary kit, but the diff must be inspected forst to ensure that no further damage has occured.
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If you're having to spend any money is it possibly time to look at fitting an LSD or something similar?
Ed
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If you're having to spend any money is it possibly time to look at fitting an LSD or something similar?
Ed
Isn't that a mind altering drug? :?
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Gords. Sorry missed this thread as been a bit busy in the house DIY department.
I replaced my rear diff a few weeks ago. Never done it before and apart from it being bloody heavy (saying that I managed to remove and refit it without a trolley jack) everything was quite straight forward :D
I bought a second hand one off a similar year Disco on ebay. £35.00 and it is loads better than my old one :wink:
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It might as well be a mind altering drug at the prices.
Limited Slip Diff or a Tru trac.
Oh how we all wish money wasn't a problem?
Ed
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OK, got the diff off. Can't see anything obviously broken (although I probably don't know what I'm looking at :roll: )
I can turn the propshaft bit and hold either/both of the wheel bits - so what/how should these two bits join? :?
There is another picture in my gallery.
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Well... on the face of it... that looks OK...
Is everything secure and attached ?
We could be looking at a CV joint after all, and the rear prop wasn't actually turning.
Time to start stripping the hubs :?
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Well... on the face of it... that looks OK...
Is everything secure and attached ?
We could be looking at a CV joint after all, and the rear prop wasn't actually turning.
Time to start stripping the hubs :?
The propshaft definitely turned ... when I got it home I did high box, 1st gear, let out the clutch and the propshaft went round ... car stayed still :roll:
Shouldn't there be a fixed connection between the input/propshaft and each output/half shaft? I put one of the half shafts back in, turned the propshaft bit and the half shaft didn't turn. :?
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Oh yes, also
I just put it into diff-lock and 1st gear and jacked up each wheel individually - both rear wheels rotated, but the front wheel (only tried one) didn't (as expected?!).
That's rotated by hand - not with the engine running :wink:
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I'd be inclined to stick the wheels back on as long as you've removed the rear propshaft off the handbrake drum.
Then select diff lock and see if the car will move. If it won't move the problem is on the front.
If it moves then it's definately on the rear end.
Ed
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ok,
When you turn the flange, does the crown wheel go around, or does it just make clonk clonk noises????
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In diff-lock (rear propshaft removed) the car drives.
Turning the flange causes the crown wheel (the biggest one?) to go round. With the flange held, I can still turn the 4 interlocked cogs in the middle (where the half shafts go). I assume that's not right?!
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Well... we know it is the diff then, if the prop was turning and you went nowhere.
So.. we need to get a new diff centre sorted.
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Err no, that doesnot sound right. But looking at the pictures I can't see anything amiss ...
I have a confession Gordon - I've only just seen the PM you sent me ... :oops: I do apologise - me sitting here all dumb and stoopid whilst you're struggling on. Sorry, mate!
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Hmm....
Something isn't right. Rotate the flange and listen for the clonk.
THen back it off, and do it again until you get where it is coming from, also, watch the pin in the middle, see if it is moving around.
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Well ... if a diff centre is required, my offer stands.
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Wow, am I confused :shock:
Should the small inner cogs move round without the big outer one moving? 'cos they do!
Neil - which bit are you offering?
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Gords,
I have the diff centre, thats the inner bit, without the crown wheel (the big turny bit) ;-)
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I have a confession Gordon - I've only just seen the PM you sent me ... :oops: I do apologise - me sitting here all dumb and stoopid whilst you're struggling on. Sorry, mate!
No worries, it came off quite easily once I'd broken the join (gentle use of trolley jack :wink: )
Neil (or anyone) - how does the crown wheel join to the diff centre - as I said, the cogs in the centre turn without the crown wheel turning, so what's going to make the wheels turn when the propshaft turns? :?
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The crownwheel is bolted to the diff centre.
The test is to hold both half-shaft spline outputs, and try to rotate them against each other. If one turns freely, there's your problem. Just turning one will caused the small cogs to rotate.
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Gords..
The pinion and pinion gear are attached to the input flange... this is turned by the propshaft.
The crownwheel (the big one) is bolted to the diff carrier and is directly meshed with the pinion gear, so this will always turn.
There are then a few more gears...
The side gears (shown in brown) into which the halfshafts fit
The planet gears (shown in red) which sit on a cross pin
When both wheels have good traction, as the crownwheel turns, the whole diff cage turns as well (the planet gears are working against each other) and the shafts both turn.
When one wheel has less traction, or is turning at a different speed (when cornering) there is a difference in rotation of the planet gears and the power is distributed across the shafts.
Because the planet gears are always working against each other, they need to be secured, and they need to be able to turn freely.
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Gords,
My diff centre ... http://members.mud-club.com/profiles/thrasher/gallery/Diff
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Neil, I take it that you still have the outer races for the bearings? :?:
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I think the bearings probably ought to be changed if they are going in a new carrier ;-)
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I would agree with Tim, my LSD's went in with new bearings and races. I do have the old races, but they will need cleaning up as they have been off the vehicle for over a year in the garage, which aint known for being dry ;-)
Secondly ... there is the possibility the breakage is in the diff nose....between the flange and the crown wheel....!
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Well, I'm still lost :cry:
I just started it up, in normal box and 1st. Car doesn't move but output shaft from the gearbox is turning. I already know that it will drive on the front wheels in diff-lock.
I put both half shafts in the diff and tried various stuff - the only way I could make both half shafts move without moving the crown/input shaft was to turn the half shafts in opposite directions.
Is there anyone who could pop by and take a look please?
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Gords..
The pinion and pinion gear are attached to the input flange... this is turned by the propshaft.
The crownwheel (the big one) is bolted to the diff carrier and is directly meshed with the pinion gear, so this will always turn.
There are then a few more gears...
The side gears (shown in brown) into which the halfshafts fit
The planet gears (shown in red) which sit on a cross pin
When both wheels have good traction, as the crownwheel turns, the whole diff cage turns as well (the planet gears are working against each other) and the shafts both turn.
When one wheel has less traction, or is turning at a different speed (when cornering) there is a difference in rotation of the planet gears and the power is distributed across the shafts.
Because the planet gears are always working against each other, they need to be secured, and they need to be able to turn freely.
Nice answer.
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Curiouser and Curiouser...
Were the bolts holding the drive flanges all present and correct ?
You got any pictures of the halfshafts ?
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I've never worked on one of the rubber donut props but could the rubber donut have gone so the prop isn't actually turning the drive flange?
Ed
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Curiouser and Curiouser...
Were the bolts holding the drive flanges all present and correct ?
You got any pictures of the halfshafts ?
3 bolts, all there and nicely tight - both sides of the rubber donut! Donut looks to be in one piece.
Propshaft slides in and out nicely and the sliding joint doesn't spin round (not by hand at least!).
Some more pictures in my gallery.
Anyone want to buy a 2 wheel drive Discovery? :roll: :wink:
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Interesting thought Ed...
Looking at the pictures, I'm not sure how it would fail... but I don't *think* it could happen.
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What about the bolts which hold the driven member (end of the half shafts) ? Were they all OK ?
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are you sure its not your transfer box
you know when you change from low to high and sometimes it jumps out into what effectively is neutral(with that loud bang)and you get no drive
just a thought
when you change from diff lock to low or high is there any friction or clunking
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I've seen a "failed" rubber donut - it's still attached to prop/diff just a helluvalot of play - chap that brought it in was complaining of clonking on taking up the drive not surprisingly :roll:
Gords - is you're donut still a donut? :lol:
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are the drive flanges 1 piece & part o the shaft or like the defender 1's & can strip inside the flange?
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Chuggaman.. I thought that... but if the rear propshaft was turning and the vehicle wasn't going anywhere, then the problem has to be in the rear axle somewhere.
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Could it be something that only occurs when it's under load (trying to drive the car)?
Lots of bits appear to be quite loose and/or have quite a bit of clearance. e.g. if I hold the flange still and move the crown wheel, the input shaft (whatever it's called) goes up/down a mm or 2.
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When you turn the drive flange does it turn the worm drive and then turn the crown wheel, or do you turn the flange and nothing happens?
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It's possible Gords, but I would think you would hear a rattling when you tried to drive.
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I'm watching with interest.
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At the time, and a few times since, I have switched from normal to diff lock.
When it first happened, I put the handbrake on and felt that it was stopping the propshaft. When I got it home, I got the wife to put it in gear and accelerate (gently!) while I watched underneath and I could see the axle end of the propshaft going round.
The bolts holding the half shafts to the wheel end (!?) were all there and tight.
I put it into diff-lock and 1st gear and jacked up each wheel individually - both rear wheels rotated, but the front wheel (only tried one) didn't - is this as expected?
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It's possible Gords, but I would think you would hear a rattling when you tried to drive.
:shock: ooh, haven't I mentioned that? It did make a clanky kind of noise - kind of like metal banging together. A bit hard to describe, but there was definitely noise associated with trying to drive!
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I put it into diff-lock and 1st gear and jacked up each wheel individually - both rear wheels rotated, but the front wheel (only tried one) didn't - is this as expected?
With the handbrake on, yes... with one front wheel off the ground and one on it, and the input locked (via the diff lock and handbrake) then the raised one shouldn't turn.
The fact that the rear did points again to a failure in the diff.
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are the sockets that the halfshafts connect into worn/play etc???
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What about some more pictures of the diff and halfshaft ends?
Try setting things up on the bench as they would be on the vehicle and operate it as you would on the car.
Then try get someone to hold the halfshaft with some grips and see if turning the drive flange can over ride it.
Ed
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are the sockets that the halfshafts connect into worn/play etc???
i say that as the halfshaft looks worn
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Sorry Gords. I missed the bit about photos in the gallery.
I wondered where Chugga saw the worn halfshafts.
Is there any debris in bottom of the axle casing.
Ed
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are the sockets that the halfshafts connect into worn/play etc???
i say that as the halfshaft looks worn
It's hard to tell, they seem to slot in quite nicely and don't slop when turning. I think there is up/down movement, but I'm not sure what's moving. Surely, they would have to be completely shagged to stop the car moving completely?!
What about some more pictures of the diff and halfshaft ends?
Try setting things up on the bench as they would be on the vehicle and operate it as you would on the car.
Then try get someone to hold the halfshaft with some grips and see if turning the drive flange can over ride it.
I've taken a few more pictures - one shows the splines for the half shafts reasonably well.
I did try putting the half shafts in place and tried turning various ends in various directions. It seemed fine, but I don't have a bench or a spare pair of hands do it was a bit difficult to test it properly :(
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Is there any debris in bottom of the axle casing.
I forgot to check until I'd washed my hands yet again! I'll check tomorrow, although there's certainly nothing big as I did have a quick delve after removing the diff.
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are the sockets that the halfshafts connect into worn/play etc???
i say that as the halfshaft looks worn
It's hard to tell, they seem to slot in quite nicely and don't slop when turning. I think there is up/down movement, but I'm not sure what's moving. Surely, they would have to be completely shagged to stop the car moving completely?!
What about some more pictures of the diff and halfshaft ends?
Try setting things up on the bench as they would be on the vehicle and operate it as you would on the car.
Then try get someone to hold the halfshaft with some grips and see if turning the drive flange can over ride it.
I've taken a few more pictures - one shows the splines for the half shafts reasonably well.
I did try putting the half shafts in place and tried turning various ends in various directions. It seemed fine, but I don't have a bench or a spare pair of hands do it was a bit difficult to test it properly :(
looking at the picture of your halfshaft and the 5th picture along(the one that shows the sockets)
id say that is where your problem lies
look how flat the recieving splines are
corresponds with the halfshaft
it is possible that you could not turn this by hand
remember how much horse power there is in your enginge compared to your hands
and dont forget the weight of the disco
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oo yes , does appear worn dont it. well spotted
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looking at the picture of your halfshaft and the 5th picture along(the one that shows the sockets)
id say that is where your problem lies
look how flat the recieving splines are
So, new half shafts as well?
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looking at the picture of your halfshaft and the 5th picture along(the one that shows the sockets)
id say that is where your problem lies
look how flat the recieving splines are
corresponds with the halfshaft
it is possible that you could not turn this by hand
remember how much horse power there is in your enginge compared to your hands
and dont forget the weight of the disco
They do look worn flat. Under load it would slip
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looking at the picture of your halfshaft and the 5th picture along(the one that shows the sockets)
id say that is where your problem lies
look how flat the recieving splines are
So, new half shafts as well?
looks like it Gords
try ashcrofts for the replacements, they do a HD version, not sure of the price though.
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looking at the picture of your halfshaft and the 5th picture along(the one that shows the sockets)
id say that is where your problem lies
look how flat the recieving splines are
So, new half shafts as well?
ill give you an example
i have a cordless screwdriver
sometimes its fine and does the job
sometimes when im trying to countersink a screw the extra force or torque causes it to slip
making a rattly scraping noise
im quite new to landrovers so i dont know if this is a common or rare problem
but i can tell you i had the same problem on my daihatsu fourtrack on the front diff
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try ashcrofts for the replacements, they do a HD version, not sure of the price though.
Not [!Expletive Deleted!] likely :shock:
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_26.html
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try ashcrofts for the replacements, they do a HD version, not sure of the price though.
Not !Expletive Deleted! likely :shock:
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_26.html
:shock: see what you mean!
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now now kiddy winks,lets keep things cheap n nice n simple so step back from the lsd's n lockers & the uprated 1/2 shafts
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now now kiddy winks,lets keep things cheap n nice n simple so step back from the lsd's n lockers & the uprated 1/2 shafts
Too bloody right mate :wink:
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now now kiddy winks,lets keep things cheap n nice n simple so step back from the lsd's n lockers & the uprated 1/2 shafts
exactly
try a breakers yard
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i no where there is a full set under a v8 disco eh chuggaman?
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i no where there is a full set under a v8 disco eh chuggaman?
omg
dont talk to me about that
f$%^ing thing :(bloodshot):
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Done a request on The Parts Gateway (http://www.partsgateway.co.uk) for a diff and half shafts. Lets see what the prices are like tomorrow!
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try landroverheaven.co.uk or .com
cant remember
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It is sealed on with hylomar (you will need some to put it back on).
Where do you get hylomar from? Does it have other names?
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'Hylomar' is a trade name for a type of (blue) Aero-grade gasket sealant. It should be available from any good motorist shop.
Personally, I'd use Hermatite Instant Gasket (Red or Orange) for this particular job in preferance to Hylomar - it just seems less susceptible to leaks with the EP90 oil ...
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It is sealed on with hylomar (you will need some to put it back on).
Where do you get hylomar from? Does it have other names?
Blue Hylomar
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I assume the Hermatite / Hylomar is "as well as" the normal gasket?
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I assume the Hermatite / Hylomar is "as well as" the normal gasket?
yep as well as the little paper gasket
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Oh yes, should the half shaft bolts have thread lock (loctite?) on them? The end of the bolts is kind of blue :?
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Secondhand diff and half shafts on their way from a breakers. Oil ordered from Difflock. Off to Guildford Land Rover soon for the gaskets (hope they're in stock!).
Just got to put it all back together then ... and get it MOT'd as it expired yesterday :roll: That's where I was headed when it broke :evil:
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The half shaft bolts do need to be loctited.
Sounds like the job's a good 'un Gords.
MC triumphs again :)
Ed
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Fingers crossed Gords.
Did you get a decent price on the bits ?
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Fingers crossed Gords.
Did you get a decent price on the bits ?
Well, I think so ... £90 for the diff and £40 each for the half shafts. The donor had done 63K miles apparently :)
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Not too bad then. And at least you have a bit of come back if there is a big problem with them.
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Not too bad then. And at least you have a bit of come back if there is a big problem with them.
They give a 90 day guarantee, which seems pretty good for a breaker!
Got them from CWS 4x4 (http://4x4cws.co.uk/)
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Check your bolts for the halfshaft to hub are in good nick - have a look at the threads and compare them against a known good thread in case they have stretched slightly - they have a tendency to shear off in the hub after being on and off a few times, especially if its been done by an overzealous workshop monkey with an air line :oops: :evil:
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overzealous workshop monkey with an air line
dont start that in here cos that gets on my goat & i may say somethin that ill regret,ive managed to snap the bolts of with a 1/2 inch ratchet,
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especially if its been done by an overzealous workshop monkey with an air line
Bit of a myth anyway that one, you can get much more torque with a normal ratchet than you ever will with an impact wrench. (below 3/4 inch drive)
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ahem.... I was referring to myself there :oops: :wink: :lol:
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what about Guy with his wheel bearings and rear diff level bung :lol: :lol:
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that's what you call heavy handed!!!!!
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Diff bung.
Mega warning. It's a strip down job if you wind it in too far :)
Ed
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Managed to get the new diff on and bolted before the rain started - but does anyone know what torque the nuts should be tightened to? (diff to axle)
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Managed to get the new diff on and bolted before the rain started - but does anyone know what torque the nuts should be tightened to? (diff to axle)
TIGHT for every thing & personally wouldnt bother loctiting the bolts that hold the shafts ic cos they are tyhem more likely to sheer when u remove them the next time
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Managed to get the new diff on and bolted before the rain started - but does anyone know what torque the nuts should be tightened to? (diff to axle)
TIGHT for every thing & personally wouldnt bother loctiting the bolts that hold the shafts ic cos they are tyhem more likely to sheer when u remove them the next time
Ah, but what's TIGHT? :-k Is your TIGHT the same as my TIGHT?
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not my tight i am heavy handed and nearl always shear strip the thread :(biglaugh):
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does anyone know what torque the nuts should be tightened to? (diff to axle)
36 - 46 Nm
or
26 - 34 ft.lbs
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for everything 19mm upwards i have a 2 foot long 1/2inch ratchet & for everything under that i have a 3/8's long ratchet & for diffs n shafts,stuff like that,use the air gun on No2 which is TIGHT (bout 100+nm) :lol:
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does anyone know what torque the nuts should be tightened to? (diff to axle)
36 - 46 Nm
or
26 - 34 ft.lbs
Bloomin heck - what a guess :shock: I did 42 Nm :)
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especially if its been done by an overzealous workshop monkey with an air line
Bit of a myth anyway that one, you can get much more torque with a normal ratchet than you ever will with an impact wrench. (below 3/4 inch drive)
Do you think so :?
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i have to kinda agree with karloss
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My experience has always been the opposite, without a 3/4 inch socket set at least.
Cavalier hub-nuts spring to mind.
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Cavalier hub-nuts spring to mind.
Never mind the hub nuts - I broke a torque wrench trying to shift the WHEEL NUTS on a Cavalier a few years ago! :shock:
Must have been King Kong on the air line at that particular tyre garage ...
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Never mind the hub nuts - I broke a torque wrench trying to shift the WHEEL NUTS on a Cavalier a few years ago!
no wonder u broke it!!! its not designed for cracking nuts n bolts away[/quote]
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on the air gun topic in a workshop i poped into for 2 days cash work they had a young lad bout 15 takin the wheel of a 7 1/2 tonner using a 3/4 air gun,thing was the gun the mechanic watching him had given him had the habit of catching so when the lad pulled the trigger,it did 4 blows ,didnt shift the nut & promptly caught its internals & flipped him over & across the floor,never laughed so much in my life :lol: :lol:
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I got it all back together today - took it for a test drive (8 miles or so) and all seemed fine ... much less clonk when starting off, which is a welcome improvement!
But ...... got home, parked up, looked underneath and OMG - diff oil almost pouring out (OK, it was dripping, but dripping pretty fast!)
The diff casing is covered with oil, as is the surrounding body (underneath), but the propshaft is clear and the diff seal (at the propshaft) area seems OK, although it's difficult to tell.
I will check all the nuts tomorrow for tightness - and hope that I don't have to 'kin start again :evil:
Or maybe I'll just take the .... thing to the garage :cry:
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for diffs n shafts,stuff like that,use the air gun on No2 which is TIGHT (bout 100+nm) :lol:
100Nm - really? :shock: That's on the nuts/studs that fix the diff housing onto the axle? :?
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yeh,i dunno exactly what my guns at at no 2 but on 4 its 400nm+,when im doin a diff change at an event i use a battery impact gun which goes to 100nm
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Is it worth tightening the bolts to a higher torque, considering that I used instant gasket type stuff (supplied by Land Rover spares)? Does it "go off" to a hard state?
I suppose it's worth a try first...
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the gasket will go off but will be rubbery so its flexible,if you dnt have acces to air tools id just do them up tight with an 1/2inch drive ratchet same with the halfshaft bolts
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I don't have air tools, but I do have a torque wrench. I must admit - I'm a tad scared of snapping off a stud 8-[
Is it best to circulate around the nuts to build up the tightness gradually? Or is there a particular pattern to follow?
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I don't have air tools, but I do have a torque wrench. I must admit - I'm a tad scared of snapping off a stud 8-[
Is it best to circulate around the nuts to build up the tightness gradually? Or is there a particular pattern to follow?
Anyone know? :?
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for the shafts i normaly go in a criss cross pattern like u would wheels but for the diffs etc i just work my way round,same with the prop shaft bolts
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8-[ Still nervous ... 100Nm? 8-[
Haynes reckons 65Nm for the Halfshaft flange retaining bolts. :?
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as i said make them tight,ive never torqued any of the diff or prop bolts ever,always done them up tight with either the gun or with a ratchet & never had the diff come slack or the 1/2 shafts,had the prop bolts start to come slack but cured that with a bit o tipex
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Well, I gave all the nuts another session with the torque wrench - this time I got to 64Nm before I chickened out 8-[ They do seem pretty 'kin tight now though!
Topped up the oil (what an awkward job!) and took it for a short test drive. Stopped, got out, had a look underneath ... and there was the oil dripping out again :evil:
This time, because I hadn't driven so far, the cause/location was easier to see ... yep, the pinion oil seal :cry:
Is the process the same on the 300 as it is on the 200 (I've seen Cliff's workshop article)? Does it need any special tools or can it be done without?
Is the part number for the seal FRC8220?
Now, of course, if anyone local has the special tools they would be most welcome to pop round :wink: [-o<
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Isn't this diff under guarantee?
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Hardly worth sending it back for a duff oil seal
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Gords,
You did put a nice thick layer of hylomar in there didn't you .. don't use it sparingly...!
Take pic of the leak please ;-)
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Is the process the same on the 300 as it is on the 200 (I've seen Cliff's workshop article)? Does it need any special tools or can it be done without?
Is the part number for the seal FRC8220?
You shouldn't need special tools.
That is one of the part numbers, there is another possible... is the diff from the same vehicle as yours ?
https://www.land-rover-parts-shop.com/shop/en/browse/Discovery+I/3/0/17/60/160
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Hardly worth sending it back for a duff oil seal
No but if they have offered a guarantee he should seek some remuneration for the fault.
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Gords,
You did put a nice thick layer of hylomar in there didn't you .. don't use it sparingly...!
Take pic of the leak please ;-)
Yes!
When I saw the leak the first time, I had driven a few miles at 40+ so the oild was everywhere. This time I wiped as much off as possible and only drove a mile or so. The giveaway, I think, is that the underside of the diff guard (QT) was soaked and I could see oil around the diff/propshaft end - but nothing significant near the diff/axle mounting.
The diff does (supposedly) have 90 days guarantee - so I'll phone them tomorrow and see what they say :wink:
Tim - is the diff from the same vehicle? Well, I asked for a 24 spline 3 bolt diff for a Discovery 300 ... so I would hope it is!?
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I don't have air tools, but I do have a torque wrench. I must admit - I'm a tad scared of snapping off a stud 8-[
Is it best to circulate around the nuts to build up the tightness gradually? Or is there a particular pattern to follow?
Anyone know? :?
work on the opposites as you would when you tighten wheelnuts