Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: steve10 on December 30, 2007, 10:35:55
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Hi all
I have a 1990 3.5 carb V8 disco for offroading. Bodywork is a little scratched but mechanicals and chassis are fine (previous owner of 10 years never used it off road).
I have had it for 6 months and it still has MOT until May 2008. I live in Oxfordshire and i have to travel to neighbouring counties to go offroading and the fuel bills are getting a bit hectic so I am thinking of selling it and getting a 300tdi.
I have no idea what my car is worth, £500? I could LPG it but how much would that cost as i would have to pay someone to fit?? I recall reading somewhere they are about £1,200 to supply and fit? If so, i could put this towards a 300tdi which together with proceeds from mine would give me a budget of £1,700 ish. Is that enough? If so, it makes sense to me to go for a diesel particularly as it is likely to be four or five years newer.
Some of you must have been in this position before, does anyone have any advice/pearls of wisdom!
cheers
Steve
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sell it mate ,and get ya self a good 200 tdi not a 300 tdi ...only my personal choice tho :D
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Robbie
Why do you suggest a 200tdi rather than a 300tdi?
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I have a 300TDi and found its done everything Ive asked of it so far n ive been pushing it hard over christmas :lol:
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I have a 300TDi and found its done everything Ive asked of it so far n ive been pushing it hard over christmas :lol:
And I moved to this from a V8 rangie, loved the V8 to bits but not liking water and loving petrol so often made me change, no regrets so far.
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Robbie
Why do you suggest a 200tdi rather than a 300tdi?
as i say it's only my personal opinion.....don't wanna upset the 300 owners :lol:
but comparing my mates 300 to my old 200 ,the dash in mine was not bulging as his was. and the fuel economy was better on mine too . :wink:
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i have a v8 anyday . had mine converted 3 years bad never look back . thing with a diesel your paying 110p compared to 98 per litre on lpg for the same mpg.
underslung tanks r about 11oo quid fitted boot tank would be around 800 fitted
plus with carbs u will never need unleaded again to start it.
as for for v8s hating water never once had any problems.
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i have a v8 anyday . had mine converted 3 years bad never look back . thing with a diesel your paying 110p compared to 98 per litre on lpg for the same mpg.
underslung tanks r about 11oo quid fitted boot tank would be around 800 fitted
plus with carbs u will never need unleaded again to start it.
as for for v8s hating water never once had any problems.
110 a litre?? not when 200s and 300s run happily on veg oil, mine costs me virtually nil running on used oil, even buying the new stuff it is only 50-60p... and carbon neutral if that is important to you...
diesel reliability is very good as long as you have fuel they usually run, a tuned 300 will happily stay with a normal v8 so will have more than enough power
although I love the sound of a V8 and would happily have one as a toy economics of a diesel make the choice a no brainer in my case.
Cheers Steve
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I have an LPG converted V8 with no intention of parting with it, my friends all have diesel powered Landrovers. The diesel crew all seem to get more mpg for the money than me even though my engine and lpg system are in good condition. I love V8's indeed I'm on my 7th V8 powered Landrover. Diesel engines if maintained properly seem to perform as well as the V8. My V8 is good in water and as long as they are well prepared don't give any problems. Suck water into the V8's air inlet and its just a matter of drying out and off you go. Do the same on a diesel and the engines scrap. All this said and done I think that because of the rising cost of fuel the V8 engine is becoming a thing of the past.
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for what it's worth, here's my opinion....I have a v8i ES model (the heavy one with all the bits), and i can outrun any diesel especially uphill and when towing something (like a large caravan) up a long motorway hill, you won't find a faster or less stressed 4x4.
OK diesels are cheaper to run but over 100 miles it will cost you about £5 more in a v8i (3.9), and you will be able to hear the stereo.
the other things to consider are that a diesel needs servicing more than a v8 and the v8 is the strongest engine.
easy to work on and reliable, the v8's are cheaper to buy, generally have half the mileage, and you don't upset the neighbours when you come home late.
the v8 'rock' can't be beat and most of the parts are cheaper than diesels, and above all the v8 drivers have a saying....."if you can't afford a proper engine, get a tractor"
and finally, what you have is working fine, by the time you sell it and lose money, then buy a diesel with more miles and unknown problems (let's face it if it was that good, they wouldn't be selling it), then you save a couple of quid each day in fuel, how many miles would you need to do just to break even.
do yourself a favor, stick with what you have and save yourself a load of grief.
sorry diesel drivers.........good comprimise, but it will never be as good as a v8.
(that'll stir it up)
Gary. :lol:
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with a V8 u have 2 bank to stand on in war , diesel just have 1 bank lol
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Anyone know what the last post on here is supposed to mean? Im lost? I assume its talking about banks of cylinders? What has war got to do with it? This isnt abuse, just try and make your posts in some way coherent so the rest of us have some chance of understanding what your trying to get at if you are going to take up space on the forum?!
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can you lot hear yourselves, change a v8 for a derv, please.
just go out to your disco v8 now strike her up and blip the throttle a couple of times, then ask yourself why you posted this!
i know you will then imediately spelt with 1 m, realise you have just had one off those funny mad moments and all will be ok again.
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i have collected a few motors over the last 5 years,3 Range Rover Classics,1 Series 2a,a 300tdi Disco and i look aftera 1975 TACR2.
all the Range Rovers started their lives with V8 engines one got changed as the engine was dieing .the replacement engine was a diesel.i love the V8's,ones on petrol the other on LPG they are both different animals and while the engines are good that's how they'll stay.the diesel conversion was a great idea but hard work in practice.home made conversion plate and engine mountings and then fuel modifications for the 6 cylinder diesel to run.DIESEL is now a good diesel and checked by vosa i did that for piece of mind.
the disco is fine,pulls well and returns good fuel economy,after nearly a years use i must thank SWMBO as i would have spent the £1335 it cost me on another Range Rover.i have auto boxes in the Disco and the LPG Range Rover with 5speed manuals in the other 2 Range Rovers.
this will not help you make a decision but it may make you say "why don't i get a second motor"
thanks for letting me add confusion
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Afternoon all
thanks for the responses and sorry for delay in responding, been laid up with the lurgy!
I wasn't expecting that sort of reaction and have to confess i'm still not sure what i shall do :?
Time for some contemplation :-k
Steve
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a summary then
if you are going to 'listen' to your discos engine then go for a V8
if you are going to use it , then go a diesel
;)
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:lipsrsealed: er what a mpi conversion with lpg . rover 2l turbo lump in her :clap:
and poll plz this is gonna go on and on
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I cant really say either, not having had a V8 but another high output petrol and a 200TDi.
I miss the performance and power of the petrol, but then again once you get the 200TDi up to 60, it'll do it all day. Plus running it on veg alters the fuel cost argument a little. Thing is is yes, its only a £5 more over a week but on a tight budget that counts. I've gone from £25 a week fuel to £17 a week. £5 saved a week gets you a years road tax!
Dont forget insurance too, not sure what difference a V8 makes, but will make some.
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YOURE all going mad, keep burning that luverly petrol, forget the cost, and insuranceis often cheaper wierdly, (on the older stuff).
v8
v8
dont listen to them, they will warp you, turn you into a diesel stinking veg oil burner. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Insurance isn't an issue for me, they all cost about the same. Given the cost of derv though the cheapest option is a 3.9 on LPG at the moment :?
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v8...all the way!
we've got 4 of em and the only way i'd be persuaded to a diesel is probably a diesel v8 gmc lump lol...even that's pushing it though.
If you're going to do big mileage get lpg, if not don't bother. sit down and work out how many miles you've got to do to pay for the conversion.
A basic single point gas conversion is £300 (kit) or around £600-700 fitted. For a multipoint system expect to pay towards £2000 fitted. You get what you pay for but again it depends how much you're going to use it.
V8's aren't as fussy about water as diesel owners make out...if you really want to go playing in the water just fit rubber 'gloves' on the dizzy and coil and away you go.
On the topic of diesels, all of them sound like tractors. My dad's got a 57 plate vw passat diesel and even that sounds noisy and rattley, compared with the nice burble of a v8 :afro:
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Insurance isn't an issue for me, they all cost about the same. Given the cost of derv though the cheapest option is a 3.9 on LPG at the moment :?
what even with the cost of the lpg conversion included?
...and what about the deviation mileages that many gas owners have to do to find a station that sells gas.
rather than spend all that money converting it to be as good as a diesel you may as well buy a diesel in the first place. (in my view)
Diesel is the best fuel until fuel cell arrives !!
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the american have v8s landy only i think , diesel pass with something else other than in a landy :wink:
lets face it a converted v8i 3.9l u ll get for around 1700 quid these days. put this way u have a 145 bhp now u could have 185bhp and 230 torque compared to 111 bhp and 198 torque from a 300 tdi
plus a 3.9 sounds better than a 3.5
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a 3.9 sounds much beter than a 3.5, w t f are you going on about.
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Having had 2 V8 and 2 diesel Land Rovers I'm sticking with the diesel. Although diesel's so expensive now I'm not sure I'm going to end up running either.
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...and what about the deviation mileages that many gas owners have to do to find a station that sells gas.
This isn't a huge problem really, i rarely have to change my journey to fill up with LPG, more and more places are starting to sell it and there's plenty of 24hr places around as well
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The £1250 I paid for my multipoint system is less than he premium you'llpay for somehting with a deisel lump in it anyway, it's swings and roundabouts.
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hmm... its getting to be a "derv Vs Petrol" debate here.. i suspect the basis of the first post is:
Due to travelling more miles, should i spend £1200 on a gas conversion, or sell up and put it towards a diesel? - (correct me if i`m wrong)
personally i would think hard, i`m currently facing a decision, theres a nice v8 with the gas conversion coming up for sale soon, but for me, its a case of is it worth hanging on to the vehicle i know (+ mods) and now trust over the chance on a new one?
cost of fuel is 50/50, gas/veg oil 50pish, petrol cheaper than diesel, but you get a few more miles out of a derv... if your going for a diesel, i`d definatley look for a 200tdi, strong engine, (check gearbox over though!) and cheap as chips as everyone prefers the look of the 300 front end... but i spend more time under or in mine so front end looks are irrelevant really... this wil leave a bit in the kitty for those things that you are bound to get with a new car.. the wear and tear items that didnt look too bad when you first looked at it.. the a frame ball joint, the other "irritating rather than urgent" jobs...
but then theres the route of better the devil you know... i assume yours is in overall good condition? i would love the gurgle of a v8, but prefer the simple nature of a derv, performance wise, its adequate, its a 4x4, not a track car!
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What you siad makes sense. There's a lot of value in knowing you're car is basically reliable and being an older 3.5 would run ok on a much cheaper single point (or even draw through) LPG system, so less than £500 new if you fit it yourself.
So add that to your £500 car and what sort of Disco 200TDi will a grand buy you? and will there be any boot floor left in it ;)
As an alternative school of thought, a RRC Turbo Deisel (VM engine) will be about as worthless as your 3.5 V8, they are not very popular though a reasonable engine when it's working.
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vm diesels oh boy the italian tractor comeing back out . if i remember right dont they only do 24 mpg if ur lucky . going back nearly 10 yrs now when lpg was quite rare to find . how about a gmc 6.5 v8 diesel one. saw one for sale the other day for around 1600 quid.
put this the 3.6 v8 diesel series 3 range rover has the power and torque to take on the standard v8 one
which makes me wonder why the 3.6 v8 diesel iceburg one at gaydon i mean from the late 70s never made it into production. 8-[
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I would still say for reliability go for the diesel over the v8 lpg. Its a proper factory made solution , not an aftermarket bolt on bit. Seen many lpg kits not working properly.
Also you have to watch out these days for the quality of the gas, there is a lot of foreign muck out there that can damage your engine if useed over a long period. I know this from experience as via work we used to run lpg foden tractors - their cat engines were failing due to excess wear within 300,000kms which on a truck engine is very,very low.
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which makes me wonder why the 3.6 v8 diesel iceburg one at gaydon i mean from the late 70s never made it into production. 8-[
the iceberg engine was dropped due to production costs and production space.the engine had reached the production stage when all satalite assembly was closed down which ment more space and a new pruction shed needed at solihul all at the usual time when no extra outlay was available.
J E engineering were happy as the crackshafts from the iceberg engine helped them produce their new 3.9 and 4.2 engines before LandRover
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I've been watching this thread with interest. I started my LR "career" with a TD (19J) 110, then moved onto a gassed 3.5 L V8 and sold that over the summer to be replaced with a 300 Tdi disco. I thought about buying a V8 disco but decided against due to fuel costs and some of the issues below.
So, a couple of comments from my own experience:-
- the LPG set-up on my old 110 was done by the previous owner who was a registered gas fitter (it was allowed in those days). I think it was a single point system and I added an electronic ignition. I had nothing but trouble keeping the LPG and petrol systems consistently running well together. I'd take it to the specialist and within weeks one of them would be causing trouble (I think a carb overhaul might have been in order). A multipoint system installed by a specialist may well give a better system. I reckon I was getting about 12 mpg on petrol and maybe 10 on gas.
- different people's V8's seem to react diffferently to water. Mine started coughing if we got within 100 metres. I tried the glove thing which did not seem to help much - and disintegrated within 6 months (£30 not well spent) and motercycle chain wax was not much better. Now I listen to my Tdi and think "that's the noise of reliability and a decent mpg".
- in years gone by I've been involved in these discussion and waxed lyrical about how the V8 sounded but at the end of the day the a LR is functional vehicle and not a performance one. My Disco is an automatic!! If I win the lotto I'll buy a petrol RR or an Aston martin but I think all my LR's from now on will be diesel.
- I know I have the option of sticking veg oil in which will improve the running costs even further.
A question: why are there some many 50th anniversary V8 in for sale?????
Just some personal thoughts.
David
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50th v8 90 very nice but still silly money to buy.
as for condition diesel are always gonna have a hard life compared to the v8 (garage sales man words there) . most highest specd motor are always gonna be a v8 and not a diesel
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hmm... its getting to be a "derv Vs Petrol" debate here.. i suspect the basis of the first post is:
Due to travelling more miles, should i spend £1200 on a gas conversion, or sell up and put it towards a diesel? - (correct me if i`m wrong)
personally i would think hard, i`m currently facing a decision, theres a nice v8 with the gas conversion coming up for sale soon, but for me, its a case of is it worth hanging on to the vehicle i know (+ mods) and now trust over the chance on a new one?
cost of fuel is 50/50, gas/veg oil 50pish, petrol cheaper than diesel, but you get a few more miles out of a derv... if your going for a diesel, i`d definatley look for a 200tdi, strong engine, (check gearbox over though!) and cheap as chips as everyone prefers the look of the 300 front end... but i spend more time under or in mine so front end looks are irrelevant really... this wil leave a bit in the kitty for those things that you are bound to get with a new car.. the wear and tear items that didnt look too bad when you first looked at it.. the a frame ball joint, the other "irritating rather than urgent" jobs...
but then theres the route of better the devil you know... i assume yours is in overall good condition? i would love the gurgle of a v8, but prefer the simple nature of a derv, performance wise, its adequate, its a 4x4, not a track car!
Mine is in reasonable nick, its had the boot floor done but i think the rear crossmember will need doing and possibly the n/s front inner wheel arch. Probably not to much drama for someone who knows what they are doing but not that econimical to do if I have to pay someone. At least I know what to look for in the next one........
RRB - i didn't realise that LPG systems are only £500 but I am not in the slightest bit able when it comes to mechanical things so I would have to pay for somebody to fit it.
I have been out today in it and love the V8 sound and will be sorry to see it go but i think i will advertise it for sale while it still has 5 months MOT and see what happens. If I can get £500ish for it then I think I will go the derv route
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts on this, much appreciated. I'll let you know what happens!!!
Steve
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:cry: :cry: what a sad day :cry: :cry:
keep it dont let her go :lol:
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:cry: :cry: what a sad day :cry: :cry:
keep it dont let her go :lol:
leave 'im alone now. He's made his mind up so the last things he needs is for us to sow a seed of doubt.
D
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go for the deisel for numerus reasons 1, they are better swimmers 2,what you going to do when mr american has taken over every oil company 3, if he dose take them over stick 2 fingers up and grow your own 4, snap a belt on your v8 and its 2 heads gone on a deisel its only one and as for the speed of a v8 how fast do you want to drive over rocks and crap in my little mind theirs no contest v8 = motorways deisel = mud and thats what most people buy them for
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4, snap a belt on your v8 and its 2 heads gone on a deisel its only one
snap a belt on your diesel its a head gone...snap a CHAIN on a v8....well...exactly!
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4, snap a belt on your v8 and its 2 heads gone on a deisel its only one
snap a belt on your diesel its a head gone...snap a CHAIN on a v8....well...exactly!
thats one of the reasons why i bought mine. if u got a diesel ur going to need zues cogs to solve the problems of belts breaking.
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4, snap a belt on your v8 and its 2 heads gone on a deisel its only one
snap a belt on your diesel its a head gone...snap a CHAIN on a v8....well...exactly!
thats one of the reasons why i bought mine. if u got a diesel ur going to need zues cogs to solve the problems of belts breaking.
I think Zeus timing gear kits are rather more expensive than an engine rebuild, at least, they were last time I looked! Just change the belt at the recommended intervals and it shouldn't be a problem unless you do daft things like revving it flat out.
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Loved my V8 but the chassis went quicker than the motor :cry:
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:shocked: :afro: :shocked:
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for what it's worth, here's my opinion....I have a v8i ES model (the heavy one with all the bits), and i can outrun any diesel especially uphill and when towing something (like a large caravan) up a long motorway hill, you won't find a faster or less stressed 4x4.
OK diesels are cheaper to run but over 100 miles it will cost you about £5 more in a v8i (3.9), and you will be able to hear the stereo.
the other things to consider are that a diesel needs servicing more than a v8 and the v8 is the strongest engine.
easy to work on and reliable, the v8's are cheaper to buy, generally have half the mileage, and you don't upset the neighbours when you come home late.
the v8 'rock' can't be beat and most of the parts are cheaper than diesels, and above all the v8 drivers have a saying....."if you can't afford a proper engine, get a tractor"
and finally, what you have is working fine, by the time you sell it and lose money, then buy a diesel with more miles and unknown problems (let's face it if it was that good, they wouldn't be selling it), then you save a couple of quid each day in fuel, how many miles would you need to do just to break even.
do yourself a favor, stick with what you have and save yourself a load of grief.
sorry diesel drivers.........good comprimise, but it will never be as good as a v8.
(that'll stir it up)
Gary. :lol:
Your welcome to say what ever you want. V8's are more fun to certain people but judging by your idea you really are a clueless chap :roll:
The diesels are nothing like you state!, heres a novel idea, why dont you drive one :dance:
And dont tell me you "have loadsa experiance etc etc" because from your comments you dont...
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seems to be a well sided debate so far, people who have v8's either love them or hate them
the 3.9v8 block is unfortunately pourous but that will only make a difference over 20 years i.e the older it is the weaker it gets
my partner had before this a range rover p38 4.0v8 and i drov to cardiff and back and it cost me £130 in fuel what a joke i waded it once and it coughed and spluttered its designed to be a chelsea tractor and tow a horse box and not venture offroad
i have a 200tdi ive had a 300tdi and i much prefer the 200, its a genuine workhorse which is a little easier to work on and loves going underwater, servicing it takes me less than half an hour and i do this once every 3 months so again no skin off my nose im probably getting about 25mpg on normal run and 30-35 ona motorway run but thats nothing to set the world on fire
the ease to fit everything on a diesel over the v8 is far superior in my opinion i have seen far too many v8's much newer than mine stranded by the side of the road with either an oil leak or theyve over heated because the noise the engine gives off the owner thinks hes driving a shelby mustang
anyway cut a long story short i love the 200tdi and would never part with it :afro: :dance:
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A well looked after 200tdi with a few mods & tweaks will give you all the power you need....& still you will be returning 30+mpg in a disco. Run it on veg oil at 66pence per litre & you are onto a winner :afro: Also there are plenty of spares for these floating around the market.
You don't have to waterproof everything before you go near a puddle. :twisted:
As for the sound nice V8 sound....are you going to listen to it or drive it? IMHO my Td5 90 (chipped & straight through pipe) sounded better than most V8's :shock: 8-[ :hurryup: :-'
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66 pence per littre that dear. :shocked:
how do u fancy 4 gallons for a tenner, think u know them L9000K
aye lad :wink: :wink: :wink:
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66 pence per littre that dear. :shocked:
how do u fancy 4 gallons for a tenner, think u know them L9000K
aye lad :wink: :wink: :wink:
know who??
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66 pence per littre that dear. :shocked:
how do u fancy 4 gallons for a tenner, think u know them L9000K
aye lad :wink: :wink: :wink:
know who??
At that price, i want to know them too
:lol:
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try asking xtremeteam where and what there using :-k :dance:
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try asking xtremeteam then and its not red diesel like i thought :dance:
ask him what?