Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: Bush Tucker Man on January 06, 2006, 21:20:09
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I've got a set of LR JATE rings (part no; RRC3227) in the workshop & a (genuine LR ???) steering guard on the 110.
Now the guard doesn't sit flush against the chassis members, but has tubular spacers to either side (sorry no photo)
(I've got a copy of the Defender accessories catalogue in front of me, but there's not a good enough picture)
Anyways, there's enough lee-way to fit the JATEs, but do I attempt to cut the spacers in a straight line :lol: ??, or buy a bag-full of thick washers of an appropriate thickness?
Also; I've got the rear recovery loop for the cross-member. Mines's got the long Dixon-Bate height-adjustable frame (& 2 sliders)
I believe it's got a plastic tank at the age of mine? (1999), is there sufficient room to get to a (24mm?) spanner the back of the cross-member & replace a pair of the bolts with the recovery loop???
It means I don't hve to carry a slider & hitch around if I need to tow anyone
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I've got one of the recovery 'loops' fitted to mine. There should be plenty of space to fit it before fouling the tank.
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Thanks Steve, I'll admit I haven't looked properly yet :oops:
I'll have a browse & hopefully replace a pair of bolts with the Loop,can't see the slider going up that far really??
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if you look on page 2 under jate rings to 90, (sorry dont know how to make a direct link) littlepow has pictures of how he has attatched jate rings with steering guard in place.
i have had the same deliberations myself you see, genuine steering guard comes up fairly high but should have adequate spacing to fit rings, but i havnt got a pair to try and dont want to dismantle everything if it wont work.
i'll be interested to see how you get on.
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'Clips'
Like in 'LittlePovs' post, I have a large spacer between guard & chassis, so can cut it/replace it
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I've got one of the recovery 'loops' fitted to mine. There should be plenty of space to fit it before fouling the tank.
The problem is the plastic tank & associated metal guard which fits right up to the bottom edge of the cross-member
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I've got a set of LR JATE rings (part no; RRC3227) in the workshop & a (genuine LR ???) steering guard on the 110.
Now the guard doesn't sit flush against the chassis members, but has tubular spacers to either side (sorry no photo)
(I've got a copy of the Defender accessories catalogue in front of me, but there's not a good enough picture)
Anyways, there's enough lee-way to fit the JATEs, but do I attempt to cut the spacers in a straight line :lol: ??, or buy a bag-full of thick washers of an appropriate thickness?
Here's a roughly in-focus image :roll:
Now you can see the extent of the gap between chassis-rail & guard. I found some aluminium spacers today of approximately the correct diameter(internal & external), so I'll have a go at cutting them to a suitable length over the weekend
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The only thing you might find, is that you may need to cut a section from the top corners of the steering guard to get the rings to fit.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/littlepow/1797bdf5.jpg)
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BTM where did you get the recovery loop from ?
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It's a genuine LR part. I'll go and dig out the part number and add it in a few minutes!
....right, I'm back! It's NRC5396 at £5.24 + VAT. You will also need the spreader plate for the other side, 562756 at £6.10 + VAT (yes, more than the loop!) and 2 nuts. I used Nyloc ones. Can't remember the thread size, but I'm sure it was metric.
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The only thing you might find, is that you may need to cut a section from the top corners of the steering guard to get the rings to fit.
No need it clears it by miles :D
It's a genuine LR part. I'll go and dig out the part number and add it in a few minutes!
....right, I'm back! It's NRC5396 at £5.24 + VAT. You will also need the spreader plate for the other side, 562756 at £6.10 + VAT (yes, more than the loop!) and 2 nuts. I used Nyloc ones. Can't remember the thread size, but I'm sure it was metric
M16, the same as tow-ball mounting bolts (& thus a 24mm)
socket/spanner.
I've got a couple of the spreaders as well as the loops/JATEs
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Thanks V8 money Pit.
BTM how much do you want for a spreader and loop
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Thanks V8 money Pit.
BTM how much do you want for a spreader and loop
What I meant is; I've got one loop & 2 (maybe 3?) spreader plates
Loop & 1 plate are going on the 110, if there's enough thread length to cope with the Dixon-Bate framework at the outer-face
If not, recovery towing will be via a Dixon-Bate tow-jaw (http://www.dixonbate.co.uk/html/tow_jaws.htm) on a spare slider. It'll take up less room than carrying the 'Pinball-Wizard' (http://www.dixonbate.co.uk/html/universal_coupling.htm) around on its slider
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Sorry mate I thought you had some spares :oops:
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Sorry mate I thought you had some spares :oops:
No worries, but at the prices Steve quotes, new ones won't break the bank
It's NRC5396 at £5.24 + VAT. You will also need the spreader plate for the other side, 562756 at £6.10 + VAT (yes, more than the loop!) and 2 nuts.
Well you don't actually need the genuine spreader-plate, a cut down drop-plate (or a suitably sized & drilled piece of 6mm steel will suffice) as a backing plate.
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I've been informed by another '99 Td5 owner on 'LR Net' that all the towing-related holes in the cross-member are all threaded :( :(
So my 'Loop' idea is blown out of the water, now I need to buy/find a cheap tow-jaw & pin (http://www.dixonbate.co.uk/html/tow_jaws.htm)
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I've been informed by another '99 Td5 owner on 'LR Net' that all the towing-related holes in the cross-member are all threaded :( :(
Nothing a round file won't solve :wink: :D
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I've been informed by another '99 Td5 owner on 'LR Net' that all the towing-related holes in the cross-member are all threaded :( :(
Nothing a round file won't solve :wink: :D
Yes, but you can't get to the rear nuts without at least removing the tank-guard, & if it acts as a cradle dropping the tank itself
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Fitted one of the JATE rings this morning (near-side), but due to the wonderful LR 'build tolerances', the off-side requires a longer high-tensile bolt (only about 1/2" longer), as the steering-guard appears to be off-set. so I'll have to got to the industrial suppliers in Wakefield later on.
I was also going to rearrange the Instruments (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=17529), but it's settled into a constant heavy drizzle, so that's off the cards now :cry:
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Got another High-Tensile this afternoon from Dixon-Hall (http://www.dixonhall.co.uk/index.html), but after meeting up with Andy('Range Rover Blues') I fitted it when I got home.
It's still a bit short, but it ought to suffice for now, as the thread is flush with the top of the nut.
I'll track down another next week, as that was the longest M12 they stock
Might have to go to BAPP (http://www.bapp.co.uk/index2.htm) at Castleford
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Fitted one of these, to solve rear recovery..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/sgl322/Truck%20Cab/Suspension/afterrear.jpg)
Bought mine from Scorpion as it was convenient, but a number of places do them. It bolts straight onto TD5 crossmember.
Cheers
Steve
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Fitted one of these, to solve rear recovery..
Bought mine from Scorpion as it was convenient, but a number of places do them. It bolts straight onto TD5 crossmember.
Cheers
Steve
It looks a very interesting solution :-k
I take it that it has the threaded cross-member?? (captive nuts?)
Otherwise you've had the same problem as I've got (fuel tank)
Can I ask 2 questions please?
1. How far does it stand off the cross-member face?
2. How much are they?(haven't noticed them for sale)
My main concern is whether the upper-most bar on the Dixon-Bate framework will interfere with the loop on that
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It's still a bit short, but it ought to suffice for now, as the thread is flush with the top of the nut.
Richard,
If the bolt is flush with the end of the nut, it's fine.
Spare threads sticking out beyond the nut add no strength.
Dave
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My main concern is whether the upper-most bar on the Dixon-Bate framework will interfere with the loop on that
And. yes, on a quick 'in the dark & by feel', the upper bar does indeed cross exactly in front of the top-most threaded cross-member holes :roll: :roll: :roll:
Bl**dy typical :twisted:
It's still a bit short, but it ought to suffice for now, as the thread is flush with the top of the nut.
Richard,
If the bolt is flush with the end of the nut, it's fine.
Spare threads sticking out beyond the nut add no strength.
Dave
Well it feels to be about flush but access is more limited than I envisaged when you're actually trying to get a nut on it & tighten it up
Why did I say I got the bolt from Dixon-Hall??, I didn't (must be going , or gone, senile)
They didn't have one longer (only threaded bar)
I actually went to Turners (the little fastenings & fixtures unit at the bottom of Back Garden Street) & was charged the princely sum of 97p :shock:
I'll quiz our 'Estates' on Monday first, the engineers might have something, they're usually very obliging
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Do you really need the rear recovery loop when you have the towbar?
Or are you just a gadget freak like the rest of us 8)
Dave
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Do you really need the rear recovery loop when you have the towbar?
Or are you just a gadget freak like the rest of us 8)
Dave
No, well okay. Yes :lol: :lol:
It was just a means of retaining rear recovery/towing without having to haul the slider & 'Pinball-Wizard' around with me, as it's substantial bit of kit.
I don't really want to leave it permantly in situ, as I'm sure 'it'll get off & walk away at some point', if left :roll:
I thought that fitting a loop would avoid that situation
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Too true, and in fairness you've already mentioned that ............... sorry, not paying enough attention :oops: ............... :D :D :D
:idea: Why not simply use a shackle through one of the pre drilled holes in the towbar frame
Dave
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Too true, and in fairness you've already mentioned that ............... sorry, not paying enough attention :oops: ............... :D :D :D
"Pay Attention 00", erm (where was I??)
:idea: Why not simply use a shackle through one of the pre drilled holes in the towbar frame
Dave
I know that's an option & the frame is probably strong enough, but it's putting strain on one side unless you shackle on to both sides?
I suppose I'll just buy a pin-hitch (http://www.dixonbate.co.uk/html/tow_jaws.htm) & keep it on the spare slider under the rear seat
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Why not simply use a shackle through one of the pre drilled holes in the towbar frame
Dave
:idea: :idea: :idea:
Eureka!!
I have it!!! (better see a Doctor then?)
UNLESS..........................
I get a BIG shackle & use the slider-pin to replace the shackle pin & do it that way??
It'll have to be a big shackle to fit snugly & avoid bending the pin in situ.
Thanks for the nudge in the right direction Dave, I did have a 7tomn(?) laying about at the old house (Sods Law, I've thrown it away)
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being slightly off centre is unlikely to be a major problem ......... however I like things to be tidy as well.
How about
2 shackles - (1 each side), short tree strop (or similar) as a bridle + tow strop ............. problem solved .......... 8) ... Bob's yer uncle ........... etc
Dave
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.de/new/oxid.php/sid/f75c3e25d70390d57754294854f7fbd8/cl/alist/cnid/a9940b456627bc856.03629816]These (http://[expletive deleted) might be a bit excessive though :? :lol:
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[quote="Bush Tucker Man]
It looks a very interesting solution :-k
I take it that it has the threaded cross-member?? (captive nuts?)
Otherwise you've had the same problem as I've got (fuel tank)
Can I ask 2 questions please?
1. How far does it stand off the cross-member face?
2. How much are they?(haven't noticed them for sale)
My main concern is whether the upper-most bar on the Dixon-Bate framework will interfere with the loop on that[/quote]
I'll measure up and take some closer pics for you tomorrow. I'll also check the exact price, but I think itwas about 20-25 pounds.
I take my standard LR adjustable tow plate and rack off, takes about 5 mins to undo bolts and disconnect connector and bolt on ring. But I don't tow that often.
Have you also considered one of these..
(http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/Products%20images/cats/rec/tow/QDtowbar.jpg)
this works with TD5 tank and crossmember.
Cheers
Steve
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I'll measure up and take some closer pics for you tomorrow. I'll also check the exact price, but I think itwas about 20-25 pounds.
Have you also considered one of these.. this works with TD5 tank and crossmember.
Cheers
Steve
Thanks for the offer of measurements
I'd like to stick with the Dixon-Bate, as I often tow various trailers (& hence coupling heights)
I've had the W&H Wheelcarriers version on my old 90V8-CSW, it's an easy all-round solution, but not what I need.
Thanks for suggesting it
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I've come up with a sort-term solution (still haven't got a BIG shackle)
I used the cross-member loop (part number below), spreader plate & a 1" tow-ball spacer to mount it to the spare slider.
The only real problems are;
1. To have the loop in the central position interferes with the mounting pin
2. The thread (& length) of the 'Loop' are matched to a cross-members depth, so the spacer is required.
If I could get it threaded further down & shortened, it would be preferable.
IIt's NRC5396 at £5.24 + VAT. You will also need the spreader plate for the other side, 562756 at £6.10 + VAT (yes, more than the loop!) and 2 nuts. I used Nyloc ones. Can't remember the thread size, but I'm sure it was metric.
Apologies for slight blurring/lack of colour saturation, but it was getting towards dusk.
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I could however do with someone with a lathe, to thread the length of the cross-member section of the 'Loop', then I could cut down the thread to a minumum & dispense with the 1" spacer
That's if it'd fit in the holding section of a lathe
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That's if it'd fit in the holding section of a lathe
I'd be very surprised if it did.
M16 die nut is what you need. Just run it down with a ratchet and a socket (carefully with plenty of lubrication), you might like to find someone who will lend you one as buying one that size wont be cheap for just one use.
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I'd be very surprised if it did.
M16 die nut is what you need. Just run it down with a ratchet and a socket (carefully with plenty of lubrication), you might like to find someone who will lend you one as buying one that size wont be cheap for just one use.
Without wishing to sound 'daft', but how do i use a socket on something that has a length of about 5".
Are ratcheting die holders available??, as you can't turn the handle far enough on a normal die-holder, or I'd have got the father-in-law to do it at the bus garage
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I'd be very surprised if it did.
M16 die nut is what you need. Just run it down with a ratchet and a socket (carefully with plenty of lubrication), you might like to find someone who will lend you one as buying one that size wont be cheap for just one use.
Without wishing to sound 'daft', but how do i use a socket on something that has a length of about 5".
Are ratcheting die holders available??, as you can't turn the handle far enough on a normal die-holder, or I'd have got the father-in-law to do it at the bus garage
hold the loop section in a vice & wind the die nut down with a suitable sized socket & ratchet
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hold the loop section in a vice & wind the die nut down with a suitable sized socket & ratchet
Yes, but my point is/was;
If I use a ratchet, with a socket. How does it cope with the threaded section, unless cut-down first, surely the ratchet 1/2" drive will prevent much of the sockets travel :?
Or are Die-Nuts very deep??
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Will a spanner not do the job?
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Will a spanner not do the job?
It will mate yes.
A die nut is as it's description Richard. It's just the same size and shape as a normal nut but has the cutting teeth of a proper die. They are really only for cleaning threads up but you'll cut that with one no bother.
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I finally got a shackle drilled out.
I've been meaning to take one into the Engineers workshop in our Estates Services.
It ended up being mounted in the chuck of a Lathe & done that way.
Also, it took almost 15minutes to drill it through :shock: , pretty damn tough casting/forging then?(with stops to check depth & spray on lubricant)
For mounting in this position, I'll have to forgo a big shackle as there's insufficient clearance to allow for the 'head' between the securing (through) pin & the rear-face
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Tucker i should edit that number or someone could be borrowing it for other means :wink:
Nice Rings 8)
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Tucker i should edit that number or someone could be borrowing it for other means :wink:
????? :?
Pardon?
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Page 1 of thread ya number plate
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Better still a rachet spanner !
Yes you could cut off some of the "excess" first leaving enough to start the dye, Then cut a bit more and so on untill you have the amount threaded.
I take it the thread does not go upto the stop then as you could simply cut off the excess to do away with the spacer. You could just sleeve the extra bit and do away with the full width spacer.
Would still stick out that far but look neater.
Why not just cut and weld the hoop to the spare plate ?
Job done !