Mud-club

Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: gords on September 05, 2005, 10:33:42

Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 10:33:42
Do turbos generally work until they blow up and/or generally fail? Or do/can they gradually lose effectiveness?

I'm currently looking at options to up the power of my Discovery, but it's probably best to check everything is working efficiently first!?

Is it just a case of connecting a boost guage to check it, or is it more complicated than that?
Title: Re: Turbo lifespan
Post by: muddyweb on September 05, 2005, 10:51:36
Quote from: "gords"
Is it just a case of connecting a boost guage to check it, or is it more complicated than that?


That's the best place to start, it will give you an indication of the turbo, actuator and lift pump performance.
Title: Re: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 11:02:15
Quote from: "muddyweb"
Quote from: "gords"
Is it just a case of connecting a boost guage to check it, or is it more complicated than that?


That's the best place to start, it will give you an indication of the turbo, actuator and lift pump performance.

What's the procedure for testing and what readings would I be looking for?

Anyone got a boost guage handy? :wink:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: davidlandy on September 05, 2005, 11:04:15
Jasons got a boost guage

u just plumb it into the inlet manifold.

I would think carefully prior to making any adjustments - the consequences can be expensive.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 11:18:32
Quote from: "davidlandy"
Jasons got a boost guage

Who/where?
Quote from: "davidlandy"
I would think carefully prior to making any adjustments - the consequences can be expensive.

Yes, don't worry!!

I need to do something as it struggles to reach, let alone maintain, 70mph :shock:

While on holiday (France, Alps) I found that 60 - 70 was impossible to maintain where the roads were not flat (or there was a headwind!). Although, 75 - 80 was better but I could only get to that sort of speed downhill. It managed to maintain it on the flat but would drop to 50 -55 going uphill :(

To/from Wales this weekend was a similar story - pretty much impossible to maintain 70mph. 4 hours at full throttle is not good for fuel consumption ... and it makes my leg ache!!!
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: davidlandy on September 05, 2005, 11:26:21
that dont sound right at all - mind you the bigger tyres you have fitted will make little a bit of difference.

I would suspect that its not the turbo being faulty though.

have you tweaked the pump?

Jason lives in northants, if u go onto the yellowstrap website his mobile no.is on there - have a word with him and im sure that he can post it to you - it has piping on it and unions.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 11:37:25
Quote from: "davidlandy"
that dont sound right at all - mind you the bigger tyres you have fitted will make little a bit of difference.

I would suspect that its not the turbo being faulty though.

have you tweaked the pump?

No tweaks to anything!

I took the EGR valve off recently which really helped the low end/slow driving. No effect to the top end unfortunately.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Thrasher on September 05, 2005, 11:42:50
What shape are your filters in, both fuel and *air* ;-)
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 11:48:16
Quote from: "Thrasher"
What shape are your filters in, both fuel and *air* ;-)

I replaced the Fuel filter about a month (or two?) ago. The filter is K&N and was clean-ish a couple of weeks ago.

I suppose the intercooler is a suspect. It's not been cleaned out since I've had the car.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: muddyweb on September 05, 2005, 11:53:29
Get a boost guage on it... if you are struggling that much, my guess is that the turbo isn't boosting properly.  Could well be the actuator... that's what was wrong with Daz's 200 Tdi.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 12:03:41
Quote from: "muddyweb"
Get a boost guage on it...

Anyone know of a web site that sells the required gauge/connectors/etc?

What rating (of gauge) do I need?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: TimM on September 05, 2005, 12:23:11
Your engine should boost at 1bar, so I would recommend gatting on that records more than this, mine guage goes to 2 bar and would sit at one bar nicely vertical, allowing plenty of movement either way for over/underboost.

I got it from a car tuning shop Carnossier, it's made by Tim Guages (which is handy for me having TIM written all over my dials!). I'm afraid I can't find there website though.

Mine would work great if I could work out how to fit it  :oops:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 12:48:39
I've been Google'ing and came across someone who had performance problems which were solved by cleaning (?) the fuel sedimenter?

What is it? Where is it? How do I clean it?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: NeilWilson on September 05, 2005, 12:54:39
Quote from: "gords"
I've been Google'ing and came across someone who had performance problems which were solved by cleaning (?) the fuel sedimenter?

What is it? Where is it? How do I clean it?


http://www.difflock.com/servicing/tdi-6k-service/tdi-6k-2.shtml

About 2/3rd of the way down.  Cheers.

Neil
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 13:10:54
Ah, so that's what that thing is!

For the 12,000 mile service, they recommend taking it off and cleaning it internally. I assume you can do that without draining the fuel tank?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Budgie on September 05, 2005, 13:34:20
If the intercooler hasn't been cleaned then it's worth doing.
I can't remember what size tyres you've got Gord but if it's something like 235x85's then this will drasticly effect the gearing of the vehicle and make your speedo read upto 7mph slower than you are actually going!!

If you've got a GPS then check your actual speed with what the speedo is telling you, it may not be as slow as you think!  :wink:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 05, 2005, 14:31:28
Quote from: "Budgie"
I can't remember what size tyres you've got Gord but if it's something like 235x85's then this will drasticly effect the gearing of the vehicle and make your speedo read upto 7mph slower than you are actually going!!

So, you haven't read all the stuff that appears under all of my posts then :roll:  :wink:  Yes, 235/85's :lol:

I've checked the speedo with a GPS and at 30 it's dead on, by the time the speedo is reading 70, I'm actually doing 75. In my previous posts, I'm talking actual GPS speed readings.

The problem is not so much that it takes a long time to get there (70mph), but the fact that it struggles to get there in the first place and then struggles/fails to maintain it.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Xtremeteam on September 05, 2005, 19:08:46
just had my 90 on the boost guage as its fitted with a disco engine & its only doin 7 psi or .5 bar & i lengthened the actuator rod 1 1/2 turns & that didnt make any difference,any sugestions as my 90 strugles to get to 70 mph aswell but itts fitted with 205's & a NA t box
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: seph234 on September 05, 2005, 20:33:11
i thought that you shorten the actuater arm i.e wind it in. to gain boost im only refering to my rs turbo days so might be wrong with the landie but i should think its the same as any other turbo. joe
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: seph234 on September 05, 2005, 20:34:46
and before anyone mentions it, yes an rs turbo. I am from essex :lol:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Budgie on September 05, 2005, 21:16:58
Quote from: "gords"

So, you haven't read all the stuff that appears under all of my posts then :roll:  :wink:  Yes, 235/85's :lol:


 :(bigoops):


Have a go with the turning the diaphram in the injector pump through 60 degrees and see what happens.
I think Seph is right Mikee, you should be shortening the actuator rod so the gate opens more. Not something I've had a play with yet.  :wink:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: muddyweb on September 05, 2005, 21:34:34
Quote from: "Budgie"
Have a go with the turning the diaphram in the injector pump through 60 degrees and see what happens.


But check the turbo first !

No point messing with the fuelling until you know the rest of the system is working properly.
Title: fuel pump
Post by: colintandy on September 05, 2005, 21:55:35
if you take a look at diaphram inside fuel pump as you stand at wing see where your little mark is try putting at about 3oclock and then try this will increase the rate of fuel flow 3oclock is about full open then just adjust back or forward a little till your happy if your smokin to much under load go to the lock nut under the cap of the top cover to the fuel pump lossen and adjust up or down according to smoke level but always mark stuff befor so you know where to put back if you not happy
be carefull not to overfuel as your engine cant take it for to long without fitting correct exhaust ect to get max gas flow and youl end up stressing your engine and exhaust very quickly also take actuator rod off and turn inwards if not seiezed and be carefull to grip well as you dont want to turn the insides of the actuator turn in about 4 turns at a time and check you might find you run out of rod befor your happy you can shorten but only do about 3mm at time this all should increase performance there are other things you can do but there me secret secrets regards colin hope this helps
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Xtremeteam on September 05, 2005, 22:21:05
Quote from: "V8_redline7500"
just had my 90 on the boost guage as its fitted with a disco engine & its only doin 7 psi or .5 bar & i lengthened the actuator rod 1 1/2 turns & that didnt make any difference,any sugestions as my 90 strugles to get to 70 mph aswell but itts fitted with 205's & a NA t box

<Bump> im a tit,i actually shortened it 1 1/2 turns ie screwed the bit of the turbo up the thread,will have a go again tommorow if im quiet at college,
seph dont worry bout the rst,was gonna buy 1 but built my 90 instead
Title: Re: fuel pump
Post by: Budgie on September 05, 2005, 23:44:39
Quote from: "colintandy"
if you take a look at diaphram inside fuel pump as you stand at wing see where your little mark is try putting at about 3oclock and then try this will increase the rate of fuel flow 3oclock is about full open then just adjust back or forward a little till your happy if your smokin to much under load go to the lock nut under the cap of the top cover to the fuel pump lossen and adjust up or down according to smoke level but always mark stuff befor so you know where to put back if you not happy
Be careful cos' not all the popmarks are in the 12 o'clock position on the diaphrams, better to rotate it a maximum of 90 degrees from where you find it.  :wink:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: waveydavey on September 06, 2005, 09:19:40
I've spent years working on big Diesels, the size of busses, I have never seen a turbo loose performance, they are made with too much reserve.
Boost problems are always eleswhere, Intercoolers are teh most common or even air leaks, on the disco it could be the waste gate controlling it.

Your origional guess was right, when a turbo goes it just dies a death, keep changing your oil to give it the best life and when you stop let it spin down before you turn the engine off and stop it's oil supply.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 06, 2005, 10:51:12
Does this look like the right sort of thing (boost gauge)?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7992906599

What's the recommended stuff for cleaning InterCoolers and where do I get it?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: muddyweb on September 06, 2005, 11:06:54
Looks about right.

and :

http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=5743&highlight=cleaning+intercooler
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 06, 2005, 11:08:24
Quote from: "muddyweb"
Looks about right.

and :

http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=5743&highlight=cleaning+intercooler

Excellent ... now to find the nearest B&Q :wink:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Jimbo on September 06, 2005, 11:55:57
What about the de-laminating turbo hose problem - the problem where the hose collapses (sp?) down on itself as the engine sucks for air, sure it was mentioned on here not long ago !

Jim
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 06, 2005, 16:47:24
Quote from: "gords"
Ah, so that's what that thing is!

For the 12,000 mile service, they recommend taking it off and cleaning it internally. I assume you can do that without draining the fuel tank?

Anyone know? Can you remove the fuel sedimenter without all the diesel from the tank pouring out? :?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: seph234 on September 06, 2005, 17:51:41
sorry cant help you with that question but im sure i read some where that it can become brittle and something  on the sedimenter  breaks off quite easily so be careful. if only i can remember where i read it(poor memory sorry) ](*,)
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Wanderer on September 06, 2005, 18:16:36
The sedimenter being removed can start to syphon out the diesel.
Take care around the pipes going into the sedimenter. They can rust and allow air into the fuel system if disturbing them causes any pinholes.

Some people bypass the sedimenter altogether.

Ed
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Darren on September 07, 2005, 12:48:17
Hi Gord,

How long have you had the bigger tyres fitted? They will have raised your gearing by about 10% and this can make a huge difference to performance with a tdi engine in standard form. You might well find that there's nothing actually wrong at all and you just need a bit more power to pull the higher gearing.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 07, 2005, 13:03:14
I think (?) I would have noticed if the performance dropped that much after putting the tyres on. In fact, I seem to remember not noticing a huge difference!

The problem seems to have been gradual - but right at this moment it seems as though the car is constantly towing a whopping great big caravan :shock:

As I said previously, it struggles to 70mph on a flat motorway and the slightest hill or headwind can easily knock 10 - 20mph off :evil:

Coming back from Wales at the weekend, I drove most of the M40 with my foot flat to the floor - which equated to no more than 75mph!

I appreciate the tyres will have an effect, but I can't believe (yet) that it is the problem...

I shall drain the fuel sedimenter and clean the intercooler (and check the hoses) and see what effect that has. I also have a boost gauge coming...
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Darren on September 07, 2005, 13:39:17
Fair enough. Sounds like hoses and filters are the most obvious things to check next then.

(BTW, the description of cleaning an intercooler quoted earlier was mine :) )
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: TimM on September 07, 2005, 14:09:29
Quote from: "gords"
Coming back from Wales at the weekend, I drove most of the M40 with my foot flat to the floor - which equated to no more than 75mph!


Mine is a whole year newer than yours (wow!), but the engine etc will be the same (the only difference is my EGR is disabled already), 75 comes and goes with no problem on standard gearing and standard wheels/tyres.

I've checked mine with my GPS reading, and although they are not identical, the GPS agrees with much more than 75.

I don't drive that fast normally because fuel economy is non existant at that speed, but the potential is there.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Mace on September 07, 2005, 16:24:17
Gords, my 300 tdi is a lower spec than yours but they are all much of a muchness when it come to engines. Since I've put my 235/85's on I too struggle up hills, always changing down and sometimes working hard on s teep hill to keep 50 mph. That said I don't have any problems getting to 70 on a flat (on the clock), but as soon as a slight incline comes up the speed drops.

Your tyres will be the primary cause for the feeling of loss of power but I do suspect there's also something else not quite set right which has been amplified with the over gearing of the tyres. It's probably something simple but I'd be very interested to find out what it is, as I too could do with some extra legs up hill :-)

Keep us posted.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 08, 2005, 14:51:47
OK - the boost gauge has arrived ... and the fitting instructions are, well, crap :roll:

Where should I connect the supplied t-piece?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: TimM on September 08, 2005, 15:43:46
I think you are in the same position now as I am.

The 200 series engine has a pipe which you can add the T-piece too, but I can't find one on the 300 engine.

I think you (we) need to tap into the inlet manifold (my guage came with a threaded adapter for this), but I'm not brave enough to do that.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: TimM on September 08, 2005, 15:44:41
arightpest has one plumbed into his 200, I'm going to have a look shortly (or at the next glass meet).
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 08, 2005, 18:46:30
I plumbed in the boost gauge, went for a drive and I get a tad over 1 bar at 2500rpm (ish) and full throttle. So can I assume the turbo is fully functioning?

I tried to get the plastic plug thing out of the sedimenter, it turned a bit each way but didn't feel like it wanted to actually undo 8-[  I so did not want it to snap off, so I've left it for now.

Is it a plastic screw into the metal body of the sedimenter? Any suggestions for ensuring it comes undone without breaking?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Xtremeteam on September 08, 2005, 19:26:39
stop messing about with the sedimentor as it will start to cause you more problems than you will cure if you disturb the pipes,if its doin over 1 bar or 14.7 psi its boosting slightly higher than spec
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: davidlandy on September 08, 2005, 20:45:27
Quote from: "davidlandy"

I would suspect that its not the turbo being faulty though.



see !!

Im am not completely Fick!
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 08, 2005, 21:00:01
Quote from: "davidlandy"
Quote from: "davidlandy"

I would suspect that its not the turbo being faulty though.



see !!

Im am not completely Fick!

Did someone say you were? :?

Surely it had to be the first thing to test and eliminate?!  I shall give the intercooler a jolly good clean over the weekend ... fingers crossed!
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: davidlandy on September 08, 2005, 21:05:26
that wont be it either Gords

i really think its your tyres
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 08, 2005, 21:15:33
Quote from: "V8_redline7500"
stop messing about with the sedimentor as it will start to cause you more problems than you will cure if you disturb the pipes,if its doin over 1 bar or 14.7 psi its boosting slightly higher than spec

Just because it's boosting to 1bar doesn't mean it's getting enough fuel through the system - does it?! Removing and cleaning the sedimenter is part of the 12,000 mile service. I am having touble getting the drain plug out at the moment though :roll:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: muddyweb on September 08, 2005, 21:23:35
Gords...   methodical, logical, test and eliminate...

If everything proves OK.. then you have achieved something in that exercise alone ;-)
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 08, 2005, 21:28:13
Quote from: "muddyweb"
Gords...   methodical, logical, test and eliminate...

If everything proves OK.. then you have achieved something in that exercise alone ;-)

Yes, Tim, I agree ... the only problem is I'm not sure that I know everything to be checked. Hence my stream of questions on here :wink:

Is there anything else you (or anyone) would suggest I check/clean/adjust before concluding that all is actually OK?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Xtremeteam on September 08, 2005, 21:32:41
Quote from: "gords"
Quote from: "V8_redline7500"
stop messing about with the sedimentor as it will start to cause you more problems than you will cure if you disturb the pipes,if its doin over 1 bar or 14.7 psi its boosting slightly higher than spec

Just because it's boosting to 1bar doesn't mean it's getting enough fuel through the system - does it?! Removing and cleaning the sedimenter is part of the 12,000 mile service. I am having touble getting the drain plug out at the moment though :roll:


Gords:i wish to take back the manner in which the above statement was written & re phrase it in a more suitable manner,

The sedimentor is a known problem area on the discos & when they have been disturbed by the removing of the bung they normally cause all sorts of starting & fuel starvation problems due to the ingress of air in the system,
at the mo im bypassing 3 a month due to the above problems,

ImHO i rekon your problem to be a choked intercooler or something along those lines,if not a choked fuel filter,
the spec acording to auto data for the boost is .7 bar for the discos & just under that for the defenders,
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 08, 2005, 21:52:22
Quote from: "V8_redline7500"
ImHO i rekon your problem to be a choked intercooler or something along those lines,if not a choked fuel filter,
the spec acording to auto data for the boost is .7 bar for the discos & just under that for the defenders,

I am rather hoping that it's the intercooler - as that's pretty easy to fix [-o<

Isn't 0.7 bar the rating for the 200TDi? Haynes gives a range of 0.8 - 1 bar for the 300TDi. While driving tonight, the gauge showed a tad over 1 bar ... so I'll take that as a positive :wink:  :lol:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: TimM on September 09, 2005, 09:47:08
Quote from: "gords"
I plumbed in the boost gauge


I've been stuggling with mine for ages, can you tell me how you did it?

 [-o<
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 09, 2005, 12:36:19
Quote from: "TimothyM"
Quote from: "gords"
I plumbed in the boost gauge


I've been stuggling with mine for ages, can you tell me how you did it?

 [-o<

It's very hard to see - take off the pipe between the air filter box and manifold/turbo. Behind/underneath the inlet you should see a connection with a pipe going towards the engine and one going off around the back of the engine.

The one going towards the engine is the bigger of the two and is the one you need to connect into. My gauge came with a t-connector - I cut the pipe around the middle and inserted the t-connector.

Next problem - how to get the pipe (to the gauge) into the cab :roll:  I found a grommet right behind the screen washer bottle. I pulled it out and "modified" it with a knife to allow the pipe to also pass through without getting squashed. It comes out underneath the glove box.

Mine is currently held against the CB with an elastic band :lol:  I plan to find a more permanent home soon!
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: TimM on September 09, 2005, 12:42:37
Quote from: "gords"

The one going towards the engine is the bigger of the two and is the one you need to connect into. My gauge came with a t-connector - I cut the pipe around the middle and inserted the t-connector.



Thanks,

Glad I can just add it straight into the pipe, I really didn't fancy drilling and threading the inlet manifold (lots to go wrong with disasterous consiquences. :evil: )

I definitely owe you a pint (or several!)

 :lol:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: waveydavey on September 09, 2005, 14:13:46
This is another one learnt on MArine Diesels:

If your boost is higher than anticipated look at where you are taking it, if you are measuring before the Intercooler (which is hard to tell from the description) then you do have a very ggod turbo but the air is not getting to the engine. Basically the airflow is getting choked in the intercooler giving a hight turbo pressure and not enough air to the engine.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 09, 2005, 14:17:53
Quote from: "waveydavey"
If your boost is higher than anticipated look at where you are taking it...

It's the pipe to the actuator, I think!? Which is where Mr. Haynes told me to put it :wink:

and yes, it's before the intercooler...
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 11, 2005, 21:05:23
Well, I cleaned the intercooler today and although it has improved response a bit, it hasn't really done much for the top end. It gets there a bit better and might be able to hold it longer, we'll see.

So, it looks like the only route is an uprated intercooler?

The fuel pump/etc tweaks ... are they effective without upgrading the intercooler?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: davidlandy on September 11, 2005, 21:44:06
Quote from: "gords"

The fuel pump/etc tweaks ... are they effective without upgrading the intercooler?


yes they are , but only to a limit
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 11, 2005, 21:50:02
Quote from: "davidlandy"
Quote from: "gords"

The fuel pump/etc tweaks ... are they effective without upgrading the intercooler?


yes they are , but only to a limit

How do you mean?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: muddyweb on September 12, 2005, 09:31:11
Do you get a lot of black smoke when on full throttle Gords ?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 12, 2005, 11:32:19
Quote from: "muddyweb"
Do you get a lot of black smoke when on full throttle Gords ?

No, not particularly. I does smoke on ocasions but it doesn't chuck it out. If anything, it'll smoke then flooring it from low revs, until it picks up.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: muddyweb on September 12, 2005, 11:40:29
hmm.  OK.. I was asking Allisport about other possible causes for your performance and he suggested that a faulty lift pump could be causing issues.   That is often accompanied by extra black smoke when you floor it.  (Over and above the normal 'turbo lag' levels)

The fuel sedimenter should be brimming full of fuel, if it isn't then that is another symptom.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 12, 2005, 11:52:31
Quote from: "muddyweb"
hmm.  OK.. I was asking Allisport about other possible causes for your performance

Thanks Tim :wink:

Quote from: "muddyweb"
The fuel sedimenter should be brimming full of fuel, if it isn't then that is another symptom.

How do I check that? As mentioned previously, I tried removing the drain plug, but got scared off when it seemed to turn a bit each way, but didn't want to undo. It's a plastic plug - does it just need gentle persuasion? I REALLY didn't want to break it (Belgium is coming up!!).

Is the presence of 1bar pressure from the turbo indication that all is well there, or could some part still be non-functioning?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Thrasher on September 12, 2005, 12:04:13
Gords,

Did you have a roofbox or anything else on the vehicle which might impede forward motion? Are you expecting to be able to accelerate in 5th around 70mph? Have you tried dropping a notch to pick up acceleration?

My experience with Piglet is that the autobox does shift at different times, and kickdown *IS* required to move from 70mph+

Has this happened since you played with the EGR?

Do you still have the old wheels - or someone close by - to swap them back and see if that helps?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 12, 2005, 12:29:01
Quote from: "Thrasher"
Did you have a roofbox or anything else on the vehicle which might impede forward motion? Are you expecting to be able to accelerate in 5th around 70mph? Have you tried dropping a notch to pick up acceleration?

My experience with Piglet is that the autobox does shift at different times, and kickdown *IS* required to move from 70mph+

Has this happened since you played with the EGR?

Do you still have the old wheels - or someone close by - to swap them back and see if that helps?

We had canvas bags on the roof for the holiday, but not to/from Wales - the performance (or lack of) was much the same.

From around 50mph upwards, the word "acceleration" is somewhat extravagant! It's more a case of the speed increases gradually over time :wink:

I assume it's because of the altered gearing due to the tyres, but the power seems to be too high up the rev range. Talking of rev range ... what is the "red line" for a TDi?

Changing down to 4th doesn't have any effect unfortunately. It appears as though I have little power until around 2500rpm and the engine doesn't want to rev much past 3500rpm (rough figures).

While driving through France, on a few occasions I got it upto around 80mph and it managed that to hold that (on the flat) reasonably well. Getting to that sort of speed is only attainable downhill though :wink:

The EGR was removed post France/pre Wales. The take-off and low rev picup was much improved, but it did not affect the top end at all - although it (seemed to) get there easier.

I keep thinking/feeling it's some sort of fuel starvation, but haven't found proof of that. Otherwise, it just seems like it needs a few extra horses :roll:

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone around here with standard size tyres, nor do I have any.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: NeilWilson on September 12, 2005, 12:37:14
Quote from: "gords"
Unfortunately, I don't know anyone around here with standard size tyres, nor do I have any.


I have 235/70s on my D1 in Sunbury if you wanted to swap/try one evening.  Cheers.

Neil
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Budgie on September 12, 2005, 14:13:52
If you can't find anything Gord then we'll have a look at it in Belgium and try a couple of basic tweeks to the injector pump to see if it makes any difference.
You can alway put it back if it doesn't work or you find another problem.  :wink:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 12, 2005, 14:53:32
Quote from: "Budgie"
If you can't find anything Gord then we'll have a look at it in Belgium and try a couple of basic tweeks to the injector pump to see if it makes any difference.
You can alway put it back if it doesn't work or you find another problem.  :wink:

That sounds like an offer I can't refuse :wink:  :D
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: drmike on September 12, 2005, 20:12:44
I'm not clear on the pipes - have you actually checked that none of the pipes are split or delaminating.

I'd have thought that was the very first thing to check. When my pipe from the intercooler had a small split I lost power just like you and blew black smoke just like you.

I also know these pipes do delaminate quite readily but Allisport will have mentioned this I'm sure.

Mike
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 12, 2005, 20:31:06
Quote from: "drmike"
I'm not clear on the pipes - have you actually checked that none of the pipes are split or delaminating.

I have taken most of them off and checked - I would assume that I wouldn't get full boost (1 bar) if any leaks existed? I certainly didn't when a jubillee clip broke :shock:

Quote from: "drmike"
I'd have thought that was the very first thing to check. When my pipe from the intercooler had a small split I lost power just like you and blew black smoke just like you.

It appears to be low on power but it's not blowing excessive smoke.

Quote from: "drmike"
I also know these pipes do delaminate quite readily but Allisport will have mentioned this I'm sure.

There was no obvious sign of problems with the pipes, although they are very soft - but then, they might be like that off the shelf :?
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: drmike on September 12, 2005, 21:01:44
Well it sounds like you've covered that aspect but personally I would check them all again as it's easy and cheap and I'd have thought the most common cause of failure.

In my limited experience new pipes are quite firm while ones that have been about a bit are softer. The one that split was very pliable.

I like cheap solutions! If you want to make it expensive then Allisport will sell you some lovely replacement pipes. I don't know the Allisport bloke's name but I do know he is very highly regarded and I'm sure he'd be able to give some really sound advice - you're not local to him are you?

Mike
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 12, 2005, 22:27:15
Well, silicone hoses are on the list ... along with ... :roll:

Need to come with the right "justification" for an uprated intercooler - that's I reckon :wink:  :lol:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Mace on September 13, 2005, 10:23:26
This is a long shot gords but I recently has a problem with my rear rubber donut thingy on the rear prop. I found at 55mph it just didn't want to pull through and up to 70mph very well. OK this came with a strange but mild vibration that felt like nothing I'd ever experienced before but the rubber was perished and splitting in places. I changed it for a new one and wow the power transfer was much improved. It didn't feel like the power was being 'lost' at specific speed. Somehow the loss of power was down to a loss in energy through the prop.

It maybe worth checking your rubber coupling and your U/J's just to make sure you're not experiencing a similar thing. Long shot I know !!!
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 13, 2005, 10:56:53
Quote from: "Mace"
This is a long shot gords but I recently has a problem with my rear rubber donut thingy on the rear prop.

Well, funny you should say that! I was under the car recently and noticed that the donut was looking a bit shagged :shock:  It is a bit cracked and quite compressed. Maybe I'll stick a new one on :)
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Mace on September 13, 2005, 11:15:48
If you've got time I would Gords. It's not hard but you need to remove the prop from the brake drum end first as the rubber donut has a central hole that take a pin on the end of the prop. Loosen all your bolts first mind, then remove the front end. Also there's a metal sleeve on the end of your prop with a rubber insert, I couldn't get mine off at all to replace it with the one that comes in the kit, it's made no difference not fitting the new one at all.

If you can buy a genuine Land Rover one. I spoke to my local LR specialist and he's had two or three of his recently fitted Britpart ones that have split again within 12 months of road only use. LR charge £40 + Vat I think. Also most dealerships hold them in stock !!

Fingers crossed.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 13, 2005, 22:18:53
Well, I fitted a new coupling ring/donut thingy today ... another step in a good direction :D

It has removed that annoying jerking when accelerating from slow speed, gear changing is smother and the drive is generally smoother 8)  I don't think it's done anything particular to the top end but it's certainly made it drive better and has possibly added a few mph to the top end.

The donut that I took off, when compared to a new one, was very obviously shagged :shock:

Cheers Mace :)
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Mace on September 14, 2005, 10:23:20
As the man at Tescos would say..."every little helps" :-)

I was surprised to notice such a difference in mine too. They really don't degrade in the same way as a U/J so I would imagine we all take them far beyond their useable limits before chucking them away.

Keep replacing the cheap bits Gords and you'll get a sense that you're actually achieving something. The expensive bits are harder to swallow.
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 19, 2005, 12:34:55
Quote from: "Budgie"
If you can't find anything Gord then we'll have a look at it in Belgium and try a couple of basic tweeks to the injector pump to see if it makes any difference.
You can alway put it back if it doesn't work or you find another problem.  :wink:

Thank you Budgie :D

We (Budgie) made a simple, 2 minute, tweak and it's made a marked improvement :D  \:D/

Coming home from Belgium, I was able to maintain/cruise at 130kph and the hills had much less of an impact! Yippie :D
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Xtremeteam on September 19, 2005, 19:53:31
so whos gonna tell me what you did??

i made a wee tweak on sat for goin to drumclog by fitting a vent in the actuator pipe that runs from the turbo to the actuator so at low revs it breatsh out the hole keeping the actautor shut for longer till the pressure rises
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Thrasher on September 19, 2005, 20:04:26
/me seems to recall helping by sipping Jupiler and trying to understand what makes these engines go :-)

I now understand one thing about diesel fuelling. It's bloody complicated. However - most impressive sight of the weekend has to go to Mad George, who managed to engulf the entire site in a cloud of oil and diesel....TWICE :-)
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 20, 2005, 00:06:20
Quote from: "V8_redline7500"
so whos gonna tell me what you did??

We turned the diaphram in the injector pump from 12 o'clock to about 2:30 (between 2 and 3 o'clock)  :wink:

2 screws, 2 torx, pull off cover, turn diaphram, put rubber bit back in place, put cover back on, put screws back in. Job done 8)
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Arightpest on September 20, 2005, 20:50:23
Hello Gords :lol:


That was the adjustments me and Simon were talking about in the Alps  :D but to make it work better the turbo needs tweaking and a larger intercooler to help feed lots of extra cold air in for that bigger bang to go with that extra fuel :(bloodshot):  :(bigwicked):
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: gords on September 20, 2005, 21:45:15
Quote from: "arightpest"
That was the adjustments me and Simon were talking about in the Alps  :D but to make it work better the turbo needs tweaking and a larger intercooler to help feed lots of extra cold air in for that bigger bang to go with that extra fuel :(bloodshot):  :(bigwicked):

Yes, a bigger intercooler is on the list, but this simple mod has given enough to make it much more driveable on the motorway. That'll have to do for now :roll:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Arightpest on September 21, 2005, 19:46:57
fibber you know you want one :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :twisted:
Title: Turbo lifespan
Post by: Budgie on September 23, 2005, 15:03:34
Hi Gords,

Glad to hear it worked, you can always go a wee bit more if needed.  :D

And thankyou to Neil for his support while we were working on it, I'm sure it wouldn't have been the same without him!!  :roll:

We got back last night (Thursday) after spending two nights with Duncan Brown on Skye (it rained most of the time but at least it washed the Disco for me! :D).

I'll download my photos tonight and post them later, including the damage!
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