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$1 Million Prize For Anyone To Prove Cause of Toyota's Runaway Cars
dxmedia:
--- Quote from: Saffy on March 09, 2010, 12:10:25 ---Who says it's a coding error? why not random corruption of a system from stray RF noise from a passing transmitter or a random thermal effect degrading a signal path or other such random things.
Anyhow... they not asking to find cause of bug be it a piece of code or what ever, they are asking for the test environment where the symptoms of the bug can replicated on demand. You *could* hit upon that without looking at one scrap of decompiled code but it might cost more that the 'prize' money to set up for it if seriously going to have a stab at it... but ya be famous.
--- End quote ---
Two other very vaild reasons, but the fix is a software upgrade on the prius 3 ;)
What it isn't though is a trapped cable, sticky butterfly or a pivot in need of some oil. Little bit more than a common landy problem ;)
The prize money is insignificant compaired to the cost to toyota though.
Range Rover Blues:
--- Quote from: dxmedia on March 09, 2010, 11:15:27 ---Far more compliacted than that,
Pot on the top of the throttle pedal sends a reading to the EUC.
--- End quote ---
Oh I know how complicated Electronic Engine Management systems are, I used to work on them in development when I worked for Ford. All I can say about that is if it had a Blue Oval, this wouldn't have happened. They test things to death.
Then they pay engineers to drive them to death, if anything nasty shows up they test it some more.
They also have one of the most advanced EEM systems in the industry, so good it has been used by F1 teams.
the software "fix" might indicate a probelm in the original software, or it's a safety net for a number of other possible causes. I'm surprised that applying the brake doesn't cut the throttle like it does on the Passat for example. Maybe it does now.
tim_aka_tim:
Toyota's problem is not really about ECUs and runaway cars. They're just a symptom of what
has apparently been going on. This morning, CNN carried this story about a whistleblower
that has emerged. This ex-Toyota lawyer apparently has documents to prove that they have
been systematically obstructing courts from obtaining internal documents that they were legally
entitled to.
Specifically, a 17 year old became paralysed when her Camry rolled and the roof collapsed. This
is not allowed in the US - the roof must support the weight of the car in the event of a rollover.
Toyota were asked to supply incriminating documents, so settled out of court so they didn't have
to. Apparently the roof on this Camry was too thin.
Apparently the lawyer was told by his superiors that he was to protect internal documents from
the courts at all costs, using fair means or foul.
Dave69:
--- Quote from: Range Rover Blues on March 10, 2010, 01:21:13 ---
--- Quote from: dxmedia on March 09, 2010, 11:15:27 ---Far more compliacted than that,
Pot on the top of the throttle pedal sends a reading to the EUC.
--- End quote ---
Oh I know how complicated Electronic Engine Management systems are, I used to work on them in development when I worked for Ford. All I can say about that is if it had a Blue Oval, this wouldn't have happened. They test things to death.
Then they pay engineers to drive them to death, if anything nasty shows up they test it some more.
They also have one of the most advanced EEM systems in the industry, so good it has been used by F1 teams.
the software "fix" might indicate a probelm in the original software, or it's a safety net for a number of other possible causes. I'm surprised that applying the brake doesn't cut the throttle like it does on the Passat for example. Maybe it does now.
--- End quote ---
the blue Oval aren't the only can manufacturer that tests their products to death. All manufacturers who supply cars to the european market do exactly the same. Some do certain areas more and some do less. Toyota run their own F1 team so the engine controls are devloped there before they are put onto road vehicles. With the prius running a canbus system which is connected to everything it is physically impossible to fix every mistake in the control coding by the time of a new product launch. As with every car maker they issue service updates to be implemented at servicing. this runaway throttle problem as said might be a coding error that only occurs when a preset sequence of values is seen, so the problem might not even happen in the cars lifetime.
As for stray RF affecting the car this is not a possibility as all vehicles now are rigorously tested for all bands of RF for interference. If there is an interference then the car is not classed as passed and thus can't be sold to the public.
the amount of monet toyota are already ploughing into retifications is most likely a stupid figure so 1 mill to the person who can recreate the problem is a bit of a pipe dream for joe public. Toyota have their experts who know the vehicles inside out, so i doubt if somone else will solve the problem for them
Saffy:
--- Quote from: Dave69 on March 11, 2010, 22:33:34 ---
As for stray RF affecting the car this is not a possibility as all vehicles now are rigorously tested for all bands of RF for interference. If there is an interference then the car is not classed as passed and thus can't be sold to the public.
--- End quote ---
I am not saying it's the case for this specific issue with Toyota but to say RF affecting a car is "not a possibility" then I do not believe that to be true. They may well be tested and required to pass an RF emission level , it will still produce an 'acceptable level' of noise! But that's nothing to do with being rigorously tested and shielded against the effects from external RF and again they will have acceptable levels if they are. For extreme instance the vehicle would surely be effected by a nuclear EMP which is essentially high intensity broadband RF. At the other extreme many ham radio operators have the equipment that can could potentially have undesired effects on a vehicles electronics. Real world example...
there are still new vehicles that I can prevent key fob entry into from quite a fair distance just with a low power UHF radio, in turn that system causes 'noise' on a HAM band...what went wrong with the 'not possible' testing and certification there?
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