Speed Limiting Cars

[mike142sl]

The gov't also claims that speed cameras have single handedly lead to a reduction in road accidents, they give no credit whatsoever to improved road design,

You must be aware of the arguments about the Stocksbridge Bypass a few years ago though Blues. We used to hear of death after death on that road and the loudest argument at the time was the design of the road. However as soon as the averaged speed cameras were installed the accidents and deaths stopped.

[V8MoneyPit]

The gov't also claims that speed cameras have single handedly lead to a reduction in road accidents, they give no credit whatsoever to improved road design,

You must be aware of the arguments about the Stocksbridge Bypass a few years ago though Blues. We used to hear of death after death on that road and the loudest argument at the time was the design of the road. However as soon as the averaged speed cameras were installed the accidents and deaths stopped.

There will always be a right and wrong place for any type of speed control measure.

Ultimately though, it must come down to the drivers using inappropriate speed. And I maintain that if everyone drove at the correct speed for any given circumstances, none of these controls would be needed, including speed limits.

[marjan]

Two words come to mind - NANNY STATE !!!!!

[muddyjames]

I have said for years why doesnt a device similar to this come into use. As long as it doesnt cost an arm and a leg to install I will have it fitted to my cars. I would rather pay more attention to the kid about to run out into the road in front of me than be looking down at the speedo and miss him / her.

Only thing I would question is what would happen if you suddenly tow something? Would the device know and reduce speed limits accordingly?

I know I'm only 26 but sound like a grandad and drive like one too (60mph behind a lorry on motorways) but I save money in fuel and speeding fines. If I got a speeding ticket my insurance would go up on both cars by an unthinkable amount and the 6k I have spent over the last 9 1/2 years to get the various categories on my license, I dont want to waste by trying to get somewhere 30 seconds earlier.

Also I found out today that a 19 year old lad died last night from crashing into a ditch and hitting a tree along a dead straight piece of road in the village. Thoughts from neighbours are he must have been doing approx 80mpg in the 30mph. If this is true then surely this would be a great device for young drivers to slow them down? I hold my hands up and admit when I first passed my test I thought I was invisible. Thankfuly I had a very small bump which shook me up enough to slow me down. Others arent quiet so lucky.

[V8MoneyPit]

I have said for years why doesnt a device similar to this come into use. As long as it doesnt cost an arm and a leg to install I will have it fitted to my cars. I would rather pay more attention to the kid about to run out into the road in front of me than be looking down at the speedo and miss him / her.

No disrespect intended, but isn't that missing the point? The only reason you would be 'watching' the speedo is so you don't get caught speeding. This would suggest that, if you are driving within the correct limits of the road/vehicle, that the speed limit is too low. In reality, in most 30mph limits, it is rarely appropriate to actually be doing as much as 30mph anyway. So, if you need to watch the speedo, you are likely to be driving too fast for the circumstances.

However, as you suggest, it is close to impossible to educate every member of the public to drive appropriately. As with your example of the youngster crashing or your comment on your earlier driving years.

[squaddie_fox]

i think it would be a good idea to introduce into the first two years of driving. then, have the two year probationary period of six points and you lose your licence. have to take test again and have the speed limiter etc etc.

it may also be a deterrent to peoplewho persistently speed.

unsure on the easiest way to implement it, but i will think more!  :-k

[Boddle]

 I believe the use of a black box to be a more sencible answer (as required in Canada), The use of data being restricted to police investigations.

[zebidee]

i think it would be a good idea to introduce into the first two years of driving. then, have the two year probationary period of six points and you lose your licence. have to take test again and have the speed limiter etc etc.

Um ... they have that already - 6 points is enough to lose your license in the first 2 years of driving. Also being responsible for an accident is enough as well IIRC.

On top of that you have to re-sit your test too.

Probationary Periods
Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995

If a driver first passes a driving test on or after 1/6/97 and accumulates 6 or more penalty points on his driving licence within the first 2 years of passing a driving test (either in the UK, Gibraltar or any EC State) as a result of offences committed before his test or within that 2 year period, his licence will be revoked by notice in writing and he will have to reapply for a provisional licence and retake a driving test if a full licence is wanted.

Only penalty points gained from offences committed within the previous 3 years count.

Z~

[squaddie_fox]

but like i actually said, have the limiter for two years THEN have the two year probationary period without the limiter.

[Chris Putt]

Im going to make a lot of enemies and possibly upset some people with this comment but this needs to be said. If you are likely to be offended do not read on.

Crashing a car, and smoking fall into the same category in my opinion. It is natural selection. if you smoke, you lessen your life expectancy, equally if you drive like a T**T you lessen your life expectancy, accept it. There is no such thing as an 'accident', there is always a cause and injury/death is the effect. Given the exceptions whereby there is a mechanical failure, or a pedestrian/someone in a stationary car or similar is injured THIS IS JUST HOW IT IS.

I hate this arguement. It is utter bull.

The moment anything like this becomes mandatory I will move elsewhere, the country is a bloody nanny state as is.

If I hear the arguement that a blade or a spike in the middle of the steering wheel is the best deterrant again I am actually going to scream. Like corporal punishment do you? The idea is ridiculous.

 How about just having an academic test before allowing people to drive, follow this with a test that is actually relevant to day to day motoring, with a marking system saying that if you score 90-100% you pass, if you achieve less suggest more tuition, but not a retest and if you score less again you need further tuition and a retest?
The driving test is a sham, make it more challenging and add in motorway,skid pan, speed awareness then maybe we can make progress. how about you have to update your license every couple of years and demonstrate competence like a helicopter?

How about if you don't pass first time you are not allowed to retake? Seems a good Idea to me!

I don't have the answer- I am no driving professional, and I DO SPEED, but I have the INTELLECT and the COMMON SENSE to be able to SEE IF/WHEN it is appropriate. Its down to making a Dynamic risk assessment, ie busy road at school time, you drive more slowly because the risk is high, whereas the M4 at 1.30am in the morning, in conditions above freezing, when there are no other vehicles about, what is the problem?

If people dont have the ability to see what is appropriate then take them off the road- dont 'put a spike in front of there face'- that is the kind of suggestion I expect to hear from a 15  year old. or Jeremy Clarkson.

And No, I don't agree with speed cameras either, they are a simple way of beating the motorist further for cash. Raise alcohol or cigarrette tax, kill two birds with one stone, lower drinking and smoking, gain more money, regain support of motorists.

Just my Threepennies worth

Chris

[S188]

My Mum has a peugeot 207 which has a speed limiter function, I think its quite a good idea as a tool to use when driving, but don't think it'd work so well as a mandatory thing you couldn't set yourself.  It works as follows...

You select a speed on the trip computer using set +/- buttions just like a cruse control, but rather than it holding that speed automaticly it becomes you max limit so your still 'driving' the car.  Lift, it slows down.  Use too higher gear it'll still be grumpy like any car but it won't alow you to exceed the limit using engine power.  As its a manual car its in the gear you put it in so engine brakes as normal.  IF YOU FLOOR IT IT'LL OVERRIDE THE LIMITER!  Therefore its perfectly safe for overtaking and it resumes when your back below the limit (the speed flashes if your exceeding the limit.

I think that setup can work well as a volentry system and maybe car makers should be encoraged to fit it, but governing it to the limit seems a step a bit far.  Maybe if it was governed but alowed you a breaf bit of unlimited overspeed for overtaking that'd work but I don't think it'd be possable to do that safely as there would be a limit where it'd cut in mid manoeuvre.  Thats something you need a driver to judge.  When everything is limited to almost the same speed you get the problems with overtaking lorrys on the motorway, thats actully easy to rectify as if the lorry being overtaken bothered to lift his foot or turn off the cruse control for a breaf moment the overtaking lorry would be passed pritty quick and neather loose any time, though many seem not to bother doing this, and I bet if it was fitted to cars even fewer car drivers would do it.  The truckers that do lift never really hold you up so you don't notice how often its actully done).

For emissions resions I can see the point in bringing in a max vehicle speed (like the +3.5t limit of 90km/h) around 140-150km/h (guess that'd have to be 130km/h as everyone would just run lead foot on the motorway makeing that the normal speed, and thats the highest limit within the EU bar the few remaining unlimited autobarns, which probuly have their days numbered anyway again for emissions resions).  Truth is no one really needs to go faster on the roads (sure you could turn it off for blue light vehicles, which are usally a bit bespoke anyway) and those who do are waisting significant quantitys of fuel, often for little gain [ and only to them, sometimes at the expence of others].  I'm sure the EU will do something like that one day anyway, they are already having a go at cars with high rolling resistance tyres (ie grippy ones) and sadly that could effect performance cars.  For track/off road use a max speed limiter could easilly have a system like the Nissan GTR where its unlimited in an apropreate place - all that technology is avalable to modern vehicles right now.  Rules like this are rarely applied retrospectively and I don't think should be as its much less feasable.  If your car doesn't have an ECU controled engine its more tricky to fit such a limiter, and retrofitting such a feature to many ECUs that don't surport it would also be tricky.  Adding to new cars wouldn't cost a penny though, modern cars with satnav already have the required sensors and actuators!  Most people would still buy new cars rather than drive older unlimited ones, it would just become another classic feature like not having a CAT.
The current defender already has such a limiter but who compains or has noticed it?  Someone who likes doing 90MPH on the motorway with mud terains?  I'd rather they wern't flying past me anyway.  I think its quite a sensible limit for the defender given its vehicle dynamics - they aren't built for high speed handleing, thats why they are still good in other areas - seems LR agrees too.

Maybe an overall max limit doesn't bother me though as all my vehicles don't really do over 60MPH comfortably anyway, though that doesn't really bother me.

[Rich_P]

Increased erosion of freedom is what bothers me.

[V8MoneyPit]

If I hear the arguement that a blade or a spike in the middle of the steering wheel is the best deterrant again I am actually going to scream. Like corporal punishment do you? The idea is ridiculous.

If you read the post properly, you will realise it was not a suggestion, but an example. Nobody, as you rightly say, would seriously suggest we actually have blades pointing at drivers. The point (if you excuse the pun!)  is that if people felt more vulnerable, they would change the way they drive.

Crashes are not innevitable. With correct driving by everyone on the road they are avoidable.

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

How about this for a radical new idea?
What you have is a load of people in uniform, in big marked up cars, driving the roads who are allowed by law to stop people who are driving badly, speeding, using mobile phones, driving shed vehicles or stolen vehicles, who are allowed to use discretion and would therefore act as a deterrent?
We could call them 'Traffic Police' :-k

Hang on though, that sounds like it might not make the Government much money. Best scrap that idea. :roll:

[mike142sl]

How about this for a radical new idea?
What you have is a load of people in uniform, in big marked up cars, driving the roads who are allowed by law to stop people who are driving badly, speeding, using mobile phones, driving shed vehicles or stolen vehicles, who are allowed to use discretion and would therefore act as a deterrent?
We could call them 'Traffic Police' :-k

It'll never catch on

[V8MoneyPit]

How about this for a radical new idea?
What you have is a load of people in uniform, in big marked up cars, driving the roads who are allowed by law to stop people who are driving badly, speeding, using mobile phones, driving shed vehicles or stolen vehicles, who are allowed to use discretion and would therefore act as a deterrent?
We could call them 'Traffic Police' :-k

It'll never catch on

After all, in my 'perfect world' of everyone driving properly, we would never need the likes of LSP to watch out for the idiots. And I would never want to put him out of a job  :lol:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

How about this for a radical new idea?
What you have is a load of people in uniform, in big marked up cars, driving the roads who are allowed by law to stop people who are driving badly, speeding, using mobile phones, driving shed vehicles or stolen vehicles, who are allowed to use discretion and would therefore act as a deterrent?
We could call them 'Traffic Police' :-k

It'll never catch on

After all, in my 'perfect world' of everyone driving properly, we would never need the likes of LSP to watch out for the idiots. And I would never want to put him out of a job  :lol:

I don't think there is any chance of that, matey! I think my line of work is the only one at the moment that is on the way up, unfortunately!

[V8MoneyPit]

How about this for a radical new idea?
What you have is a load of people in uniform, in big marked up cars, driving the roads who are allowed by law to stop people who are driving badly, speeding, using mobile phones, driving shed vehicles or stolen vehicles, who are allowed to use discretion and would therefore act as a deterrent?
We could call them 'Traffic Police' :-k

It'll never catch on

After all, in my 'perfect world' of everyone driving properly, we would never need the likes of LSP to watch out for the idiots. And I would never want to put him out of a job  :lol:

I don't think there is any chance of that, matey! I think my line of work is the only one at the moment that is on the way up, unfortunately!

Mmm. Sadly, I think you are right  :roll: