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The best way to stop most road deaths
SteveGoodz:
--- Quote from: JumboBeef on July 14, 2008, 11:20:00 ---
--- Quote from: redhand on July 14, 2008, 10:55:23 ---Rubbish the driver was an idiot but he could have been doing anyone of a dozen different things that would have caused the accident.
--- End quote ---
The police stated it was SPEED which caused the crash. The other driver was done (and sent down) for it. It all went through Court and the COURTS and the POLICE stated it was EXCESSIVE SPEED which caused the other driver to lose control on the bend: he wasn't doing anything else, his car was legal and well looked after, he just was going too DAMN FAST.
Trust me: SPEED KILLS!
--- End quote ---
You have to be mistaken about the reason the driver was imprisoned. There is not custodial sentence for speeding ~ causing death by careless or dangerous driving yes; but not speeding.
JumboBeef:
--- Quote from: SteveGoodz on July 14, 2008, 19:39:09 ---it's not possible to say that had the other driver been doing the speed limit he wouldn't have still caused the collision and killed your friend. Unless you are saying that it's not possible (due to the laws of physics) to get around that corner at more than 50mph (in which case the limit should be set well below that and maybe the local highways authority should shoulder some of the blame) then the reason the driver lost control was lack of ability and that lack of ability might just as well have manifested itself at 30mph as it did at 60 (or whatever).
Speed may well have been a contributing factor but the over-riding reason for the collision was driver error.
--- End quote ---
Can I make something clear please?
The road is (was: it has been years since I was there) a 50mph with fast bends. You can drive most of it at 50mph safely. I can't remember what speed this person was doing (it was eight or so years ago now) but it was considerably more than 50mph. He went into the corner too fast, understeered and ended up on the wrong side of the road, directly in the path of my friend's car.
The POLICE and their accident investigation department (whatever they are called) stated (in Court) that excessive speed was the cause of the accident. Nothing else, just excessive speed I haven't said it, they did.
--- Quote ---Speed may well have been a contributing factor but the over-riding reason for the collision was driver error.
--- End quote ---
OK, I will agree with you: driver error, by driving too bloody fast!
--- Quote from: SteveGoodz on July 14, 2008, 19:42:08 ---You have to be mistaken about the reason the driver was imprisoned. There is not custodial sentence for speeding ~ causing death by careless or dangerous driving yes; but not speeding.
--- End quote ---
If you kill someone through speeding (and this person killed two), you damn well should end up in jail. I cannot remember what he was charged with, and it was years ago, but I do remember he was sent down and the cause of the accident was excessive speed.
Death by dangerous driving? I can't remember.
SteveGoodz:
--- Quote from: mike142sl on July 14, 2008, 11:32:49 ---
FACT is the faster you are moving the less time you have to respond, just look at how far down the road you travel when braking from different speeds - and that's when you are expecting to have to brake. Non of us can expect the unexpected but FACT is you have a far better chance of responding at lower speeds - it's probably why the speed limits are what they are and mostly where they are.
--- End quote ---
I understand what you're trying to say but in the strictest sense you're wrong. The TIME it takes you to react to a situation is generally the same irrespective of speed, although it varies with concentration levels. The DISTANCE you travel in that time is, of course, different and increases with speed which is why ALL advanced driving organisations adopt the mantra from Roadcraft (the Police bible on driving) that you should never drive so fast that you cannot stop safely, on your own side of the road, in the distance that you can see to be clear.
Putting that into real world terms it means that as you increase your speed you have to a) look further ahead and b) anticipate what may happen at bends, junctions, etc., further up the road. I train a lot of drivers to pass the both IAM and RoSPA's advanced tests (all ages from all backgrounds) and the single biggest "fault" they have when we start is being reactive to situations rather than thinking about what others might do and becoming pro-active.
Better training is the only solution to the (generally) poor quality of driver on our roads.
datalas:
Just a word of warning guys before things get decidedly out of hand (I can see the warning signs flashing up)
I think the key point we all need to appreciate is that speed in and of itself doesn't kill anyone, however it is a contributing factor, that is to say it is one of a dozen variables which can easily make the difference between life and death.
Clearly, there are things that can be done to affect the other 11 and great pains should be taken to be wary of them. However, speed is perhaps the one factor we can have more control over than the others, there is always the possibility to slow down; however the options for "not losing grip" or "not having something break" tend not to be so predictable, if in doubt, drive slower it's always an option.
Anyhow, I'm not going to preach, but remember that in an accident there are a thousand factors which make it lethal or otherwise, the specifics vary from each accident to accident and from each victim to victim. In a world where there are no absolutes we have to make generalisations, and one of the convenient generalisations that can be made is that regardless of the circumstances speed rarely makes things better.
JumboBeef:
I agree.
Also, there are 3,000 people killed on the roads each year. What would happen to that number if everyone was limited to 10mph? It would drop to almost nil. What would happen if the speed limit was doubled (ie: 140mph)? That figure would go right up. The one thing which is varible and directly affects accidents figures? Speed.
I don't want a falling out. I choose not to speed. Everyone else can do what they want (as long as it's not near me and mine).
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