Oh Dear my Steering sounds as if its Bust

[Brian the Sn@il]

Got back today, and maneuvering in the car park and found the steering to gone all funny.


If i move the steering pull lock to the Right and then turn too the left, i cant move the steering wheel past straight ahead,  if i apply force, there's a all mighty Clunk and then the steering moves to the left.

Any ideas what it can be ?

Ive had a quick look underneath but everything seems OK

I'm not driving anywhere in it until Ive found the fault :(

Had another look, both Seals are gone ( oil leaking out ) from both front Hubs ( the big ball joints each side )

But even if the seals are gone it would not cause the Clunk problem ?

THeres no play at all with the engine off, you move the steering wheel a few mms and the wheel moves.

So im stumped at this one :(

After a read of the Haynes book

I had yet another look, After a Steam clean, all the oil and mud off. I can see things better.


Been trying different things.

Its the Near Side at fault as the clunks are coming from that front corner

Also its stopping the vehicle from going forwards / backwards.


Say for example i turn the steering to the left about 1 turn, it then stops ( not at full lock )

I dont force it but instead i try to reverse, it cant, unless i rev more and then it CLunks and moves.

SO now sounding like the Diff ?

mmmmm But it would be the diff only if it was moving the clunk is there when its stationary as well ?

Oh heck this ones a Head scratcher for me:(

[Skibum346]

Have you checked steering fluid level, drive belt for pump etc?

If the steering arms all look OK (i.e. not bent & jammed!) the only other thing that could have an impact would be the CV joint inside the swivel ball.

It would have to be a catastrophic failure though for it to interfere with steering.

All the best

skibum

[Brian the Sn@il]

fluid levels and belts are all fine.

Does sound like a CV joint disaster.

It just sudenly started doing it, done about a 100 miles today on B roads, got back in my drive and Clunk :(

[Pete]

Just a thoughht. Have you taken a look at the joints in the steering shaft between the bulkhead and the steering box?
 If one of them has started to sieze up or broken, it would present just those symptoms.
 Pete

[Brian the Sn@il]

After a bit of more looking into it and checking the things that have been sujested.
THe fault is from the Near Side CV joint.
So it seems to be knackard :(

[Brian the Sn@il]

£ 40  inc all gaskets / Lock nut and grease
From JSF

Looks like a greasy weekend :(  in the cold :(

[Range Rover Blues]

Not the end of the world.

Calliper off (remove brake pipe bracket from under the top swivle pin bolts, then refit them.  Have a jack under the hub whilst you do that bit).

Outer drive shaft off

Hub off

6 bolts remove the stub axle, oil falls into the tub you had ready :oops:
CV comes out in peices, using a magnet perhaps

Clean up and refit, cleaning is the longest part provided the calliper comes off.

Check the 6 stub axle bolts carefully, they should have had thread sealant on them as they are drilled right through into the oil cavity, I've seen them come out with the female thread still attached, rendering the swivel body scrap.

[Brian the Sn@il]

It was mild this morning so had a go at it.

Well what can i say.....

Can of Worms springs to mind :lol:

I had the can all ready to catch the oil, but there wasnt any just rusty water :(

CV joint came out in bits also as expected.

But there more, the main swivel oil seal needs to be changed also. As i can see they are gone :(

So stated to loosen of the steering etc etc.

Hello somethings a wobbling here, it was the roller bearing race bottom, wobbly and completely destroyed.
THis may be my wallowing from side to side problem found at last.



So have left it now, time for a tea break and another go on Monday.

Still losts to get off to get to the swivel oil seal :(

[Range Rover Blues]

That's why I try to avoid wading if I can help it.  The failed oil seal could have been caused by the loose swivel, or vica-versa :?

[Skibum346]

My commiserations Brian... but if it's any consolation... I had other problems to cure as well as my CV... Passenger side went a couple of years ago. As I was taking the wheel off... I noticed it moved a whole lot more in fr too many planes! :shock:   The swivel bearings were goosed... and after a quick check... it was proven to be both sides!

I did it in about 3 days parked on my jacksie by the axle with the car on axle stands ( O:) ). My back was killing me by the time I'd finished!

Good luck on Monday matey!

Skibum

[Brian the Sn@il]

Thanks for the words Guys :)

Im down to JSF in the Morning for parts.

The other side does need attention as there is alot of oil leaked out :(

So may well go the same way.

My plan is to get both sides done and then get everything aligned at a Wheel place.

[Range Rover Blues]

Check the swivle balls for pitting, if it's started then it's not worth repairing the steering with bad swivles.  Once done it should last a good while.

Avoid the PTFE coated balls though, the coating on mine lasted about a year of light use.

I also wanted to protect mine with a gaitor but the one I bought was for the ABS axle and didn't fit, by the time I'd sorted out one that would the new swivles were pitted again, I recon it's damage from gravel rash (road gritting etc).

Oh, and I use Luca hub oil on mine rather than EEP90 or one-shot.

[Brian the Sn@il]

Well goodness me, talk about gaskets and rollerbearings. !

I thought i would get all the bits to do the other side at the same time
£ 144 later :(

Then guess what, we needed one of those Torx spanners to get the bolts out of the plate which bolts onto the diff.

It had been bodged before as the Bell housing seal that came off had been cut ( to get it on with out taking off the Torx headed bolts )

A long shot, but went to Wilco, they had a Set of spanners ! £ 9.99
Wow that makes us Range Rover Specialists now :lol:

SO all off, new Gasket on, new Bell housing seal on.

Then its dark and Tea Time

We will continue tomorrow....

Any advice on these Shims that shim the roller bearings ?
As you cant do up the top ones until the Disc is fitted back on.

Hvent had my hands so greasy since i messed about with my Capris and Cortinas 20 years ago !!

[Brian the Sn@il]

My commiserations Brian... but if it's any consolation... I had other problems to cure as well as my CV... Passenger side went a couple of years ago. As I was taking the wheel off... I noticed it moved a whole lot more in fr too many planes! :shock:   The swivel bearings were goosed... and after a quick check... it was proven to be both sides!

I did it in about 3 days parked on my jacksie by the axle with the car on axle stands ( O:) ). My back was killing me by the time I'd finished!

Good luck on Monday matey!

Skibum

Looks like a 3 day job over here as well mate,
Im pleased now as it will sort out many issues
Wallowing
Wandering when off / on THrottle
and back to 4 wheel drive :)  

Again many thanks for everyone's input, a massive help to a amateur mechanic

[Range Rover Blues]

Ok mate, the shims on the top roller bearing, you say you can't fit them until the disk is back on, I'm guessing because of the brake pipes :? .

Well it won't hurt TBH if you leave it that late but it makes things more fiddly.

The swivel oil seal should not be fitted but hanging around loose.  For now just put the 2 bolts in then remove them when the time comes to fit the brake pipe bracket.

I'm sorry if this is not news to you, but just in case:

The steering swivel bearings runs with a pre-load.  This ensures that the top bearing is fully in contact even when the bottom bearings is loaded by the weight of the car (hitting a pothole).

The preload ensures the steering "kin pin" is never loose, it also gives a small amount of steering damping, it's setting is therefore important.

There are no dimensions for the amount of preload, you have to set it so as to acheive the correct "stiffness".  Measured as the running torque of the swivel assembly.  IIRC about 1 1/2kg on the end of the back steering arm (not the front) with no oil seals or stering linkage attached.

When it's all new like yours I'd suggest then that you assemble the swivel, put some EP90 onto the bearings but hold off filling up.  I rebuilt my swivel on the bench, it was raining :roll:

Tighten the top 2 bolts slowly until you get roughly the correct stiffness as instucted by the manual.

Measure the gap under the head of the top swivel pin.  You can use the shims like feeller guages for this, you want to select just enough so that they jam in.

Remove the swivel pin and stick those shims under the head, refit and torque up.

You now have your first guess at the correct amount of preload to achieve the specified running torque.

If it's too low then remove the thinest shim and try again, if too high add another really thin shim.  By swapping shims, combining different thicknesses and a little maths you can get the running torque correct, aim for the stiffer end of the spec though.

YES IT'S A FAFF, welcome to British engineering.  The process is what's known as iterative, that's a posh way of saying trial and error, but the changes you make should become progressively smaller as you get closer to your goal.



Note, if you have ABS there is a special tool you can use WITH NEW BEARINGS ONLY to measure the running torque of the swivels directly.


When you are re-assembling you will come accross the hub bearing adjustment.  You don't need a DTI, in fact with new seals you can't use a DTI as the seal lip is too stiff to move properly.  
I reassemble the hub with both nuts nipped up then levering against the lockwasher and the hub itself you should be able to slip a feeler guage into the gap between the inner nut and the outer bearing.

You'll find though that it's about the same gap you'll get as if you tighten the hub nut to 18lb/ft whilst spinning the hub then slacken the nut off 2 flats.  
It's important to check with a feeler guage though because when you tighten up the second nut (lock nut) any slack in the threads allows the clearance to close up, ie the looser your nuts fit, the tighter the bearing becomes.

[Brian the Sn@il]

We are doing the Shims and Bearing Tightness tomorrow, so that's fantastic information.

At least we know what we are doing now :)

RRB mate you need to re write the Haynes Manual, as this isn't in there !

[Brian the Sn@il]

8)  its done, what a job !

Other side to do next :(

[Range Rover Blues]

By which time you'll be an expert at it :D