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Attempted good deed...

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V8MoneyPit:

--- Quote from: "Mutz" ---Also Steve you could be held responsible for damage caused as well if not pulled correctly.
--- End quote ---


Given the car had barrel rolled half way down the road (heaven only knows what speed the were doing  :roll: ) I sincerely doubt they'd have noticed any difference  :lol: But you are right, of course. What a crazy world we live in, eh?

Lord Shagg-Pyle:

--- Quote from: "Manicminer" ---
--- Quote ---waiting for their accident investigation unit to arrive
--- End quote ---


I've seen that it can take 4 - 5 hours for this to happen. They need to do their work on top of this.
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I hate it when that happens, as it usually means that we are kept on late and incur overtime! :roll: That comment was a vain attempt at Emergency Services dark humour! (please note correct usage of Police Vocab Guidelines, by saying 'Dark' instead of the 'B' word)

And before anyone one starts another diatribe of 'don't do enough as it is, get paid too much, useless cops, never do their jobs, blah blah, boring, pointless, etc etc' I get taxed to the hilt on overtime, so I take it as time off if I can to avoid paying anymore tax than I have to.
So, yah boo sucks to you, farty! (Not you Manicminer, but to anyone in general who was thinking about coming out with the usual old pants)

simdeb:
i think the police get all the brunt when something /some one thinks they have been treated unfairly, i for one felt a bit let down with my son but then again we know about the 'how to' from the government ect, but as people sometimes its really hard to keep comments to yourself which majority of people should do, i wouldn't like to be a police officer yea for the nice things but the rest i wouldn't be able to cope with

Debbie

Lord Shagg-Pyle:

--- Quote from: "simdeb" ---i think the police get all the brunt when something /some one thinks they have been treated unfairly, i for one felt a bit let down with my son but then again we know about the 'how to' from the government ect, but as people sometimes its really hard to keep comments to yourself which majority of people should do, i wouldn't like to be a police officer yea for the nice things but the rest i wouldn't be able to cope with

Debbie
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Debbie,
I couldn't agree more with what you have to say and my apologies for dragging the post off topic.

In relation to the original topic namely offers of assistance from the Public.
Common Law, which precedes any of this modern Health and Safety stuff puts the duty on the Public to assist the local Constable.

That, of course is open to interpretation. Is 'assistance' helping out at an RTA scene?  If Life and Limb is at stake, I would say yes.

I prayed for a 4x4 with a winch to come along when I and other officers were at a scene with a vehicle upside down in a water filled ditch with a person inside, very similar to the recent inside. There was nothing we could physically do, due to the Constabulary saying that due to H&S regs we could not have winches on our Defender. The feeling of guilt is still with me.

Assistance also comes in the form of a load of the local lads mucking in with me to track down and catch a pair of burglars in the middle of a remote country area, that resulted in two bad guys being caught after being chased into a marsh by a group of very jarred off farm hands! The bad guys were very pleased to see the Old Bill, I can tell you! The farmers were ready for a 'good old lynching'.

Common sense prevails.

Any offer of help by the Public is always appreciated, especially by me.
You only have to look at the recent cases of the chap in Scotland taking on the terrorist at Glasgow, and also the folk on the underground train on 21.7.05. Top people who deserve public recognition.
The most obvious case of Health and Safety causing a legal and moral paradox is the incident with the lad that drowned in Wigan. A tragic loss of a very, very brave lad.
The PCSO's who attended will now have to cope with the guilt and blame of an entire nation on their shoulders for the rest of their lives.
But who is to blame in this case?
No doubt a scapegoat will be found for this tragic sequence of events.
The PCSO's? Probably, as they did not go in. But think logically about this. The lad goes in and gets into difficulty. A passerby calls the Police, who send the nearest available unit, who are not trained in water rescue.
Some factors come in.
1) The time delay from the initial call to the arrival of the PCSO's on scene.
2) The exact location of the lad.
3) The skills/training they have.

The only training for life saving I had as a Plod was when I first joined in 1991, and the number 1 rule we were told was that to go into the water was the last resort. I have not had any training since,nor have I had any First Aid training since I joined, which is odd considering most of the time we are first on scene.
So who is to blame for that? Training costs money. The bosses have to weigh up what is more important.
The Government would say that it is better to have 'more cost effective' patroling Police prescence on the streets to boost Public confidence.
The 'realists' (cynics is such a negative word :roll: ) would say "What a load of cock. It is a cheaper way to put uniforms on the Streets, which don't really fool anybody".

Again a Catch 22 question.

So do I blame the PCSO's? I feel they were put in a difficult position, ultimately by a Government that has neither the knowledge or understanding of effective management of Emergency services.
But who will be pushed up into the firing line? The Home Secretary? Who do you think?

crazymac:
I find it incredible that the police management don't make sure that you all have a 1st aid cert and a good knowledge of resucitation!

How hard could it be? get someone on each stations qualified as a trainer assessor, run regular update courses, and borrow from other stations occasionally for exams! not hard.

As for the two PCSO's!!!!! I pity the poor sods, they were put in an impossible position by their management, and they are going to have to live with it

We don't know if they could even swim themselves, but its not their job!! I know of local officers that have been given official warnings for putting themselves at risk by entering the water. there was, I believe, even one die recently in scotland after he entered the sea to a "dispondant" person who swam away from him and was picked up by the lifeboat but they couldn't get to the policeman. How does his family feel? and technically the police could get out of paying the widow a pension as he put himself at risk!!

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