Chat & Social > The Bar - General Chat
Fail to stop...
Bob696:
--- Quote ---The section 59 is just a written warning...thats all, its having the vehicle seized that costs money.
--- End quote ---
and the car is siezed on the second warning?
So it is possable to buy a car, look at a policeman (not every policeman by anymeans but some) the 'wrong way' and you lose your car (if there is a s59 already on it).
So you can lose your car for 2 'offences' that were not deemed by the police to warrent more serious court action that would have resulted in a few points and a fine. To me this reads as if the police now have more power to punish people than the courts do in some cases.
This country really has gone to pot. I also think it is very sad that people think circumventing the courts is such a wonderfull system. It's very 'african'.
LSP. It has already been used against some members of the TRF.
drmike:
So there is no appeal for Section 59, there is no right to go to court as I thought.
It cannot be right that police officers should have to make decisions that could take someone's ability to work away without that person being able to challenge it. That is not justice and we have only ourselves to blame for allowing lazy politicians to enact laws that do this.
This is indeed the sort of thing that makes one feel this country is going to pot. I never thought I'd feel that way but law like this lacks justice and I have always felt that Britain did justice quite well.
Mike
Boggert:
Ok Ok Let me make this clear to everyone here, I don't go slapping this on everyone I speak to. As for "looking at a Police officer wrong..." lets get real it not used for that, it for manner of driving and that is why I have used it in the past.
Now if you are worried about the S59 being issued while you are laning.. print a copy off the net and carry it with you. However if you are doing something wrong like driving on a bridleway, expect to get one if you are doing something wrong.
Remember chaps I don't always agree with the law, I don't make the laws. Luckily I have never used a S59 on a 4x4 driver or motocross driver because they are sensible enough to not drive on bridleways, footpaths or in a manner likely to cause distress alarm and annoyance.
If I’m given a tool that I can use to slow down people who drive or act like idiots, with out sticking points on their licence then I'll use it.
You may not like the s59 but the locals in our town love it, because with out it and the threat of it, the local boy racers would still be screaming around the car parks late at night doing burn outs and doughnuts. They would still be using the road in to town as a drag strip and making peoples lives a total misery. So in my eyes for all law abiding car drivers it makes the roads safer.
drmike:
I am quite sure that almost no police officers use it as a sort of 'personal punishment' and I'm all for having trust in the discretion of officers to judge what a suitable approach to each individual case should be. When you get mechanistic law without this discretion then you get the erosion of respect for the law.
However, making the police officers the final arbiter is not justice. You or the state feel I have committed a crime I do not. In the case of Section 59 I have nowhere to put my case. That's not justice.
There are no other laws that prevent boy racers driving irresponsibly - come on that cannot be the case. The truth is the politicians wanted a quick fix to apply when an obvious breach of the law was committed as in the cases you cite that would hurt those doing it. Section 59 is very effective but it's not justice.
Then we have 'So in my eyes for all law abiding car drivers it makes the roads safer.' The same old argument, if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear. Yes you do when one officer can make a genuine mistake, misinterperting the situation and you have nowhere to argue your case.
Plain and simple it's (IMHO) lazy law enacted by lazy politicians as a populist quick fix and isn't fair on the police that have to apply it and seriously erodes justice in this country.
Goodenss I truly am a pompous ass!
Mike
Boggert:
--- Quote from: "drmike" ---I am quite sure that almost no police officers use it as a sort of 'personal punishment' and I'm all for having trust in the discretion of officers to judge what a suitable approach to each individual case should be. When you get mechanistic law without this discretion then you get the erosion of respect for the law.
However, making the police officers the final arbiter is not justice. You or the state feel I have committed a crime I do not. In the case of Section 59 I have nowhere to put my case. That's not justice.
There are no other laws that prevent boy racers driving irresponsibly - come on that cannot be the case. The truth is the politicians wanted a quick fix to apply when an obvious breach of the law was committed as in the cases you cite that would hurt those doing it. Section 59 is very effective but it's not justice.
Then we have 'So in my eyes for all law abiding car drivers it makes the roads safer.' The same old argument, if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear. Yes you do when one officer can make a genuine mistake, misinterperting the situation and you have nowhere to argue your case.
Plain and simple it's (IMHO) lazy law enacted by lazy politicians as a populist quick fix and isn't fair on the police that have to apply it and seriously erodes justice in this country.
Goodenss I truly am a pompous ass!
Mike
--- End quote ---
There are no problems in trying to slow the boyracers down, it just on private property like car parks you have no authority. The 59 comes in handy and is used in conjunction with the Anti social behaviour laws.
Agreed it is a quick fix for a situation, but if you lived next to the car park and they were keeping you kids awake playing music, doing burnouts and doughnuts you would want that.
Now as I said I don't make the laws, however like a plumber if I have a tool in my tool box that can help sort a problem quickly and affectively I will use it. :wink:
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