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A crushing blow
Bob696:
--- Quote ---that everyone has right to appeal against a vehicles confiscation
--- End quote ---
Having read the legislation on line everyone has the right to appeal but it can only be granted on the grounds of the car/bike having been stolen AND you took adequate precautions to stop it being stolen. I really would like someone to prove me wrong on that because 'assumed guilt' is a very worrying trend.
Bulli:
I agree and an assumption of guilt is not the premise that uk law is based upon.
I can see your argument that until someone is proven guilty then they are by definition innocent. You also dont like the idea of someone being able to make that decision unchallenged, i also agree that is not good.
The problem is that the confiscation/crushing is a good thing but there is no way of having an adhoc trial when this arises and yes the police are making an assumption of guilt based on the facts as they present themselves.
The key checks are in place...ie people can produce their documents to prove the police wrong.This would stop the crushing etc...the main question still remains when is guilt apportioned? Is it when the person is stopped or when they fail to produce their documents?
Bob696:
--- Quote ---the main question still remains when is guilt apportioned? Is it when the person is stopped or when they fail to produce their documents?
--- End quote ---
Well with every other law of this land (as far as I know and certainly with all laws that predate this goverment) It is when a jury or magistrates say they are and not before
--- Quote ---yes the police are making an assumption of guilt based on the facts as they present themselves.
--- End quote ---
More correctly as the police percieve them to be and as they understand them to be.
--- Quote ---The key checks are in place
--- End quote ---
I disagree. There is no check of circumstances or of the policeman. Indeed, given that the police may sieze the car/bike upto 24 hours later from a locked premisies there isnt even a garentee that it is the right car/bike, just the policemans word. And lets face it, 1 green kmx looks pretty much like another.
Bulli:
The fact that one green kmx looks like any other may be the exact reason for taking the bike at the time..... easy for someone to switch with a mates that is legit ......
so when is guilt arrived at with speeding? Unless you go to court you accept your guilt when you accept the points and fine.
So surely not producing your documents is admitting guilt. If i was stopped i could produce all my documents and would be glad to do so.
Bob696:
--- Quote ---The fact that one green kmx looks like any other may be the exact reason for taking the bike at the time..... easy for someone to switch with a mates that is legit ......
--- End quote ---
If they could only take the bike at the time of the offence then I would agree with your reasoning but the 24 hour rule is open to both missuse and honest mistakes.
--- Quote ---So surely not producing your documents is admitting guilt.
--- End quote ---
No, not producing your documents is just that, not producing your documents. You COULD have the documents (and are therefore innocent) you just havent produced them. You are just asking in a round about sort of way for people to prove their innocence again.
Wouldnt section 152 be a whole lot fairer and in keeping with british justice system (not to mention the UN human rights stuff) if it worked the same way as speeding tickets?
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