AuthorTopic: td5 feels flat help  (Read 9577 times)

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Offline Porny

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2008, 19:19:12 »
Please don't use trademarks or trademarked images when mentioning spam it upsets people http://www.spam.com/legal/spam/

Have made changes to posts accordingly.

Sorry wolfie....   :scold: - I should have known better.

Ian
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Offline richo

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2008, 19:31:43 »
No worrys mate just me getting the wrong end of the stick.
So who do we trust to tune our td5s then as now the wing has been knocked out of my sails ,so to speak.
Some people say that a remap is the way to go and others say fit a chip.
All very confusing me thinks.
Jesus was a carpenter but god was a plasterer.

Offline Xtremeteam

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2008, 19:41:20 »
no doubt porny will moan like whore for this...

a download map like what he does or anyone else does canny be remaped in real time

the benifit of a plug in system like the dastek is a few options

it can be removed if your taking the car in for warrantry
it can be removed & sold on the 2nd hand market & recoup your costs if you choose to change vehicle
if you decide to go for further mods it can either have the map changed for a preselected one for the mods you have or remapped in real time to suit YOUR vehicle
for all the dastek units sold there has never been an issue with warped manifolds etc even on vehicles running the high power maps as they are set up to be safe, not wring everylast BHP out the vehicle

there are a few companys claiming 200bhp + on a standard turbo with the adittion of a remap & filter

It aint gonna happen, most that i have seen in person & dyno proven was 190bhp ish & that had full exhaust, was over fueling unsafely for engine life & was running huge EGTs

Mike
I can Drive.. You can criticize..
I too can criticize like you.. but can you Drive like me??


Offline Porny

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2008, 21:12:55 »
Lol....

First off, whilst I'm not a massive fan of plug in tuning, the Dastek is probably one of the better ones around.... (And I don't won't this to turn into some daft slagging match)

Mike is true in what he said, using commercially available kit, a standard Td5 ECU can not be mapped in real time!! (Regardless of what some other tuners claim!)  Instead you would run the car, make adjustments and run the car again - whilst long winded, the end result is the same.

However, again possibly unlike other people, I do not have just the one tune, and instead can provide modified remaps to suit individual needs and requirements.  And if needed, I will have the vehicle on a rolling and do a fully custom map.

A Dastek box is pretty similar to most remaps...

You buy the box and it comes with a generic tune (well, a set of generic parameters) that should provide more power..... But it is not tailored to the vehicle.

If you want a custom remap then you need to drive up to Dastek and have it done....  in just the same way I can provide a custom remap ;)

Warranty issues wise... (with regards to Td5's)
You could have two ECU's and just swap them over... as long as both are coded to the 10AS and have the correct injector codes then it will work without a problem.

Or...
If you reflash the ECU with a modified version of the original files, a dealer will not be detect that anything has changed - as for all intentional purposes the files haven't changed.

Is true that the Dastek units can be sold on if you change cars - but then you get the problem (which happens quite often) that people buy a second hand Dastek unit under the misguided judgment that all Td5's are the same!!! (they are not!!!)

In the same manner, you could always sell on your 're-mapped' ECU.


As for further upgrades...

A remap (from the correct people) is very similar to a Dastek unit - for common modifications I have 'pre-made' tried and tested tunes, and for custom mods, as mentioned I can make a 'unique' remap.


Unlike some other tuners, my remaps always air on the side of caution....  I don't sell balls out remaps that cause reliability issues - mainly because I don't want unhappy customers.  I have not had one remapped Land Rover come back with problems caused from the remap!!

The issue of warping manifolds is an interesting one.... even standard Td5's suffer from it!!!

I know of one 130" that has suffered warped manifolds, it ran a Dastek unit with a 'standard' remap - but then this is far from conclusive - as already mentioned even standard Td5's sometimes have a problem!!!

I don't claim daft figures.... and don't focus on all out power.   Some one told me the other day that their mate had 310bhp from a Td5!!

So… what’s wrong with plug in units – just my opinions….

Firstly, there are lots of companies that will sell people plug boxes, without even knowing what they do, or how they work.
They are not tailored to customers needs, and some still require you cut into the vehicle wiring loom!!!  They tell the customer to plug this in, and you’ll have 200bhp!!!

However, the main thing that bugs me…. (this covers plug in boxes and ‘remapping by post)

In my case, I will not (out of choice) remap a Td5 (or tune any engine for that matter) without doing a full ‘diagnostic’ check first to ensure that the engine/vehicle is in good working order and free from any faults.

As I’ve said before there is no point remapping an engine that has faults…. And remapping can suddenly make any faults a lot worse!! – Which will lead to an annoyed customer, who would only have themselves to blame.

From my point of view, when I do a remap a customer also pays to have their vehicle checked over, and if I find anything wrong that affects (especially) performance I will get the engine working correctly first and get them to drive it as standard to ensure they actually require a remap – i.e. more than the performance offered by a standard engine… I’m not going to sell something that people don’t need.

Whereas… you could have a Td5 that feels sluggish, everyone tells you to get it tuned, or get a plug in box… But the actual reason the Land Rover is sluggish is because there is something wrong with it!!!

Whilst I’m having a moan – people will probably say well I have a Nanocom, so I can check my own Td5.
Just because you have a Nanocom, doesn’t mean you know how to use it. Just checking for fault codes if far from checking everything is ok on a Td5… a lot of faults do not even show up in the fault code lists!!


What is else is wrong with Plug in Boxes…

You will always have a delay.

They will still try and up the fuelling even when the engine has faults!!! (this can actually be ‘very’ bad!!!)

Personally I find them slightly lacking with regards to driveabilty.

They can and ‘do’ cause spurious errors on Td5’s (even Dastek units do this!!) – On from this they even cause the Land Rover to go into limp home mode!!!
This will, at times, require a trip to a Land Rover specialist to clear.

From an insurance point of view – there is no way an insurance inspector will know the ECU has a set of modified files inside!!!  If a dealer can’t tell, an insurance inspector won’t tell!!!  Unlike if you have a crash, and don’t get chance to remove the plug in box before it goes off to the insurance inspectors.


On a TD5 - a plug in box (regardless of the way it does it) either modifies the signal to the fuel injectors - so that they stay open for longer, modifies the signal from the fuel pressure sensor so that it thinks its running a lower pressure than it actually is (so increases to fueling) or it adjusts the temp sensor, so the engine thinks it's colder than it actually is and employs cold start enrichment.  It can not affect turbo boost pressure, or do some of the things it can on other cars.

Basically, it is still a bit of bodge method of tuning....


I only sell what I would use myself…


This is just my opinion though, so feel free to disagree.....



Ian


Buy me another drink - you're still ugly!

Land Rover Diesel Tuning and Diagnostic  http://www.irbdevelopments.com - Mud-Club Member Discount - pm for details!!!

Offline ragerover

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2008, 21:41:22 »
porny
just back online had a virus

got your email ill be in touch soon  :D

latest update had landy on computer with live run shows fault with air flow meter plugged a known ok one in still shows fault??

drove with sat nav in car and speedo is showing 10 mph slow

hits 83 on flat and 75 up a hill
growing old is compulsory --- growing up is optional

Offline richo

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2008, 22:06:49 »
Porny a question for you .
Is it worth me fitting the egr removel kit or just wait until i have the cash for a remap and intercooler and then having it all done together.
Jesus was a carpenter but god was a plasterer.

Offline Porny

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2008, 22:37:58 »
Porny a question for you .
Is it worth me fitting the egr removel kit or just wait until i have the cash for a remap and intercooler and then having it all done together.


If your EGR is working correctly, and only opening when it should... then removing it all won't make 'that' much difference to performance.  You are not suddenly going to release 100bhp ;)

There will be a difference, but it won't be huge (i.e. push you back in your seat)... but at certain load/speed you will notice that the engine is more responsive/powerful - as the engine will be breathing clean air - not recirculated exhaust gas!!...

The major difference is when the EGR system isn't working correctly - which happens quite often, and the engine is breathing exhaust gas all of the time... apart from being bad for performance and mpg - it can be very bad for the engine!!

The other advantage of removing the EGR is that the inlet manifold will not get full of sludge!!!... so again improves long term reliability.


With regards to 'with a remap, or before'... entirely up to you.


Ian
Buy me another drink - you're still ugly!

Land Rover Diesel Tuning and Diagnostic  http://www.irbdevelopments.com - Mud-Club Member Discount - pm for details!!!

Offline richo

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2008, 22:34:32 »
Cheers mate i might get one then thats another thing off my very long list of things to do ticked off.
When is it even going to stop!!
Jesus was a carpenter but god was a plasterer.

Offline Landy Andy

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2008, 21:54:55 »
Mine drove well (pulls well to 85-90MPh), and as an 04 reg assume that all was working but still a change the better, now saving for the trip to see Porny for some tuning.

Andy
Andy

Defender Td5 X-Tech

Offline richo

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Re: td5 feels flat help
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2008, 18:18:17 »
How big is big.
I'm not after massive bhp just a better pull and more torque.
What is your goal by having it done.I would be very interested in the results as i would like a power up grade.
Jesus was a carpenter but god was a plasterer.

 






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