You're gonna love this clutch story

[jnoshea]

Hi Guys,

Well, it seemd like the clutch damper was on its way out so I planned to change it when I got back from Sweden last Thursday.  In the meantime I ask Vicky to top up the master cylinder reservoir if it got too low.  It turns out that while she's got a damn good feeling that Dexron III probably wasn't what she should put it in she nevertheless decides to check with the builders converting our loft...they say it's probably fine  

So having fitted a new damper, the system is hugely contaminated with Dexron III which is refusing to mix with the DOT3 at all and has turned into a black sludge.  Tried bleeding it to flush it through with the old 'two man' method but the Dexron III is too sludgy to push through the system properly.   The best solution I know is to get a new master and slave and remove the enitre system for a damn good clean in a variety of solvents.  The reality is that we're off on holiday on Saturday and I don't really have time.

I'm off now to Halfords to get 5 litres of DOT3 and an Eezy-bleed to see if flushing it through will get us anywhere. If not, it's new cylinders. Anyone like to estimate how long it will take me to change the master and slave?

[Wanderer]

James,
If you're intending to a lot of off road stuff or driving somewhere with lots of hills I'd use DOT4. I managed to boil DOT3.

The clutch slave and master cylinder are pretty straight forward and shouldn't take long. Make sure you get the correct slave. Mine is a 1993 and they changed the size of the pipe to the slave cylinder.
I'd check if the Dexron will attack the seals in the clutch cylinders although it's not as though they are as critical as brake rubbers.

Ed

[Wanderer]

It's the medication  :lol:
Yours is a 95 anyway and you're using the DOT3 in the clutch doh?

Ed

[jnoshea]

Well after buying one of those Gunson's eezybleed systems and trying to flush the oil out of my clutch hydraulics I found that the master cylinder wasn't able to take in any fluid.  It seems that the oil has well and truly clogged it up.  The slave seems fine, but given how bad the master turned out I guess it's only wise to change them both at the same time and clean out the pipes too.  I've ordered them from Paddocks and they'll be here tomorrow. I just hope I can change the slave without dropping that pivot link thing inside casing  :roll: Any tips?

[Digsit]

Pivot link thing? :-k

[muddyweb]

Pivot link thing? :-k

The operating arm for the clutch.   It sits on a pivot in the bellhousing, it should be fixed with a clip.

There is also a little plastic clip which attaches the slave cylinder pushrod to the end of the clutch operating arm.

[Digsit]

Ah ok :D

The operating arm should'nt fall off tho, should it :shock:

The plastic clip that holds the pushrod against the arm was found to be broken when I did my slave cylinder. Was assured that it would be fine without it............

And those assurances were correct :D Been fine ever since :roll:

[muddyweb]

The operating arm should'nt fall off tho, should it :shock:

Nothing *should* fall off ;-)

And those assurances were correct :D Been fine ever since :roll:

You just know you are going to regret saying that, don't you.

[gords]

And those assurances were correct :D Been fine ever since :roll:

You just know you are going to regret saying that, don't you.

tick, tick, tick ...    :lol:

[Digsit]

Surely if it was gonna be a problem it would have failed by now :?

[Digsit]

And those assurances were correct :D Been fine ever since :roll:

You just know you are going to regret saying that, don't you.

tick, tick, tick ...    :lol:

Dont you get that sound with EVERYTHING on a Land Rover :lol:  :lol:

[jnoshea]

Well, just finished the job...and nothing fell off \:D/
Hats off to Paddocks they worked a minor miracle and got the parts to me this morning when I only ordered yesterday afternoon =D>

I did however spend an hour scraping my arm to pieces trying to get the damn crevis pin back in the master cylinder pushrod.  So in case anyone else is about to do this job and is as clueless as I was: PUT THE CREVIS PIN BACK IN BEFORE BOLTING DOWN THE MASTER CYLINDER  :oops: otherwise the pushrod sits too far forward to line up with the clutch pedal in a position where the pin can be inserted.

Oh, and if you accidentally put steering pump fluid in your clutch system (for 'accidentally' read 'wife') then be prepared to change the cylinders 'cos they don't like it at all.

Bought far too much DOT3 so I guess I'll be changing the fluid in the braking system later in the week to try and use some of it up.  Should be a piece of cake with that Gunson's thing I bought yesterday.

[EvilEd]

Hmm, bit late now, but if the dextron is "lighter" than the dot 3 and sits on top, you could always make a reverse feed with an old plastic bottle, a pump of some form, a tyre valve to presurise the bottle and a pipe feed to go on the bleed nip.

Idea is that you fill the bottle with fluid, put presure above it. (Fit the tyre valve in the lid) and ot forces the fluid beck through the system to the reservoir.

Of course, having never put Dextron in my clutch  :twisted:

[Digsit]

Good news James =D>

But the big question is - has the 'juddering' stopped now

[jnoshea]

Good news James =D>

But the big question is - has the 'juddering' stopped now

Mmm  :-k Not entirely.  I'm guessing that all new kit on the hydraulic side has helped in that the bite is nice and high on the pedal now and it's a lot easier to do engage it smoothly.  But the car still *insert correct term for that oscillating you get when pulling away from a roundabout or something* so I suspect that the clutch is wearing and will soon need to be changed.  Having said that, it ain't broke so I'm going to wait until it does given the cost of replacing the clutch itself. According to the factory workshop manual this symptom might not even be the clutch as it also lists worn engine mountings as being able to give the same response.

I had completely dismissed the idea of changing the clutch myself because the haynes manual tells us to remove either the engine or the gearbox.  But I spoke to a retired mechanic friend of mine who said that they used to change Discovery clutches by removing the radiator and sliding the engine forward without disconnecting too much.  This then gives enough of a gap to replace the clutch.  Presumably a self-centering bearing is best in this case since space is limited.  Anyone else tried this method?

[Range Rover Blues]

It's the clutch centering tool you need to refit the clutch, don't worry too much about the release bearing.
I'd advise a thourough clean-up of all the parts though, especially the spigot bearing (guess which bit I forgot the check) and the flywheel surface.
Our has a new B&B clutch and judders horribly in low box, it gets worse as the clutch heats up.

For anybody swapping the slave cylinder, the clip is only really there to hold the operating rod whilst you remove the cylinder.  If the clip breaks try a blob of grease to hold the rod into the fork before resorting to taking out the engine or box.

[muddyweb]

In terms of changing the clutch...  I would never advise moving the engine... it's such a hassle.

You can slide the gearbox down and back out of the way enough to do a clutch change if you get some decent support under it.

[Range Rover Blues]

I didn't find it too bad and I don't like lying under heavy bits of car anyway, bit of a coward me
It's not too hard to lift out plus it gave me the chance to swap the flywheel and the rear crank oil seals/sump gasket which was causing oil loss into the bellhousing.

[Wanderer]

If my memory serves me right you can't get at the top bellhousing bolts (on a tdi) without dropping the rear end of the gearbox which also tips the engine back to give access to them.

It might be possible on a V8.


We slid the gearbox back far enough to work on the clutch (on a 4 poster) then just slid it back into position. It's not so much the stripping down as manhandling the weight of the tbox and gearbox along with the handbrake assembly.

Ed

[muddyweb]

If my memory serves me right you can't get at the top bellhousing bolts (on a tdi) without dropping the rear end of the gearbox which also tips the engine back to give access to them.

It might be possible on a V8.

It's not... the same thing applies... on an auto at least....  Can't remember doing a V8 Manual Disco  :?

A selection of long extensions and sockets are a big help !

[Thrasher]

/me shudders at the memory ;-)

[Range Rover Blues]

Undid the top 2 with a spanner, the rest can be done from underneath with about 1 metre of extensions :shock:   If the engine's coming out then remove the mounts from the block and you can drop the engine to give more room at the back.  If I remeber right the gearbox assy will balance on the 2 remaining mounts.